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*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

straw man

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
I just hope that having less on his plate, he is able to commit full focus to NZ tests and ODIs and can reclaim the top batting form we know he's capable of. Especially when touring overseas. It's not guaranteed we'll get a batting rennaisance, but hoping less non-NZ distraction and less risk of injury will help.

Still possible an IPL team does pick him up, of course. At the very least it would help if he isn't an IPL captain.
Or at best, he might do a Cummins and pull out completely.
 
NZTailender

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
SteveNZ said:

Where are we at with NZC and this contracting system where if you get dropped and can't see your way back into the side, you get to opt out to 'pursue other opportunities' or some such?
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I'm not sure how to articulate it but for someone like Guptill, and to a lesser extent de Grandhomme, if you're 35+ and not getting game time, you're probably not far off international retirement anyway whether you want it or not. I'm all for Guptills decision which to me feels different to Boult's somehow. Guptill might be legit on his way out whereas Boult would continue to be selected for a few years yet.

I guess when they renewed Guppys contract they didn't necessarily know what their plans were with the white ball teams - if they did they shouldn't've offered him a contract in the first place.

Flexibility is good but imo being available for the national team is paramount. I guess it comes down to whether the player is otherwise a lock based on ability and performance, or someone who is looking to be replaced.

I would think in Guptill's case, he should really only be recalled as a cover for injury etc. like all other un-contracted players who end up in the Black Caps. Give his remaining contract to someone on the fringe, an up and comer, who deserves game time.
 
thundaboult

thundaboult

International Debutant
I feel like we should completely change our approach in semi finals/finals from now on...we should chase and never bat first unless we have a super in-form battling line up full of stars on a road like track. We simply don't know what the appropriate target to set is, and just go about it too negatively for seconds. Time and time again we bat first in these finals, and fail. The 2 times we did go all the way, we chased. Stick to it. Let the other team show their cards, then go out knowing how the pitch will behave, and most importantly, already knowing what the target is.
 
Moss

Moss

International Captain
So that’s CdG, Boult, Neesham and now Guptill who’ve opted out or refused central contracts. Time to widen the pool then, NZC?
 
Moss

Moss

International Captain
NZTailender said:
I guess when they renewed Guppys contract they didn't necessarily know what their plans were with the white ball teams - if they did they shouldn't've offered him a contract in the first place.
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What was the conversation they had with Guppy when they first dropped him from the XI, and then from the squad for this series, I wonder? If they were clear they’ve decided to move on, then fine.
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
NZTailender said:
I'm not sure how to articulate it but for someone like Guptill, and to a lesser extent de Grandhomme, if you're 35+ and not getting game time, you're probably not far off international retirement anyway whether you want it or not. I'm all for Guptills decision which to me feels different to Boult's somehow. Guptill might be legit on his way out whereas Boult would continue to be selected for a few years yet.

I guess when they renewed Guppys contract they didn't necessarily know what their plans were with the white ball teams - if they did they shouldn't've offered him a contract in the first place.

Flexibility is good but imo being available for the national team is paramount. I guess it comes down to whether the player is otherwise a lock based on ability and performance, or someone who is looking to be replaced.

I would think in Guptill's case, he should really only be recalled as a cover for injury etc. like all other un-contracted players who end up in the Black Caps. Give his remaining contract to someone on the fringe, an up and comer, who deserves game time.
Click to expand...
To me, he took the contract in good faith, believing he would be a fixture in our sides. That changed, as is the nature of sport. Nothing is promised to you. Now that he doesn't see himself in our squads, something he really hasn't had to fight for a lot in his career (apart from Tests), he's now pulled the pin for the T20 leagues. I'll be honest, I think it stinks - and I'm a huge Gup fan. He didn't perform in the Windies, he didn't perform in Australia, his form has been on the wane, so they dropped him. Justifiably. And now he bales.

I think a lot of our contract stuff has stunk this year. CdG quits on one, only because he got a better deal lined up in the Big Bash after the fact (he'd be happy to see a very decent contract amount roll in every week if he hadn't). Boult quits on one very shortly after accepting one, but gets superstar treatment in selection despite NZC often saying they'll give preference to contracted players...then they try and act tough on it in a non-consequential home T20 series. This one with Gup, and I suppose with Neesham he at least turned it down initially - although again, where's the tough stance on non-contracted players when the last six innings this T20 specialist bat has scored are 0,0,16*,0,6,5?

To your last point, I wouldn't pick Gup again, even if injury hits others. He's made it crystal clear where he's at. And I don't agree (you didn't say it, but I've heard it online) that he is owed some sort of loyalty after all this time. I'd argue the other way. NZC have given Gup so much, and I'm not sure pulling the pin because you've been dropped is a great way to show you appreciate that.
 
F

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
thundaboult said:
I feel like we should completely change our approach in semi finals/finals from now on...we should chase and never bat first unless we have a super in-form battling line up full of stars on a road like track. We simply don't know what the appropriate target to set is, and just go about it too negatively for seconds. Time and time again we bat first in these finals, and fail. The 2 times we did go all the way, we chased. Stick to it. Let the other team show their cards, then go out knowing how the pitch will behave, and most importantly, already knowing what the target is.
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2019 WC - batted 1st in the semi vs India, then batted 1st in the final vs England and only didn't win due to 4 or 5 freakish events.
 
Moss

Moss

International Captain
I’m starting to get reminded of how things were around 2007-08 - the side coasting on past glories and making white-ball tournament semi finals but no more, and contracted players suddenly pulling the plug. As with that era, while NZC are justified in taking a tough stand on players who decide to jump ship, such a situation could be mitigated by building some depth especially in bilateral white ball tournaments. Can recall NZ back then refusing to pick form players such as Ryder, Taylor, Adams and How (not the best example, but IIRC he had a good start to his white ball career).
 
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NZTailender

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Wtc followed by a t20I world cup followed by...a t20I world cup, which is followed by the ODI world cup. I feel like the plan has been keep the squad together with duct tape for all the tournaments.

I don't think we'll see anything majorly change until after the 2023 world cup I'm afraid.
 
Howsie

Howsie

International Captain
That makes four players now who have turned down or asked to be released from there National contract. What did I say only three or so months ago, we’ll still see more I’ll put the house on it.
 
S

Socerer 01

International Captain
Bahnz said:
Huh, odd that Guptill would choose to make this brave stand against non-binary, soy-based remuneration policies now (i.e. after he's been dropped and told he's not really wanted back) and not when they were announced back in July.
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Guptill going anti-woke when he is literally broke
 
_Ed_

_Ed_

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Bahnz said:
Huh, odd that Guptill would choose to make this brave stand against non-binary, soy-based remuneration policies now (i.e. after he's been dropped and told he's not really wanted back) and not when they were announced back in July.
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Must be because the last few weeks have clearly shown that the NZ public will never engage with women's sport and there's no point investing in it.
 
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