*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Allen is a shocking keeper if that T20 at Puke Park was any indicator. Fine for domestic t20, but you’d never want him behind the stumps in internationals.

Totally agree. Pick Cleaver or, at a push, Fletcher. Allen shouldn’t be keeping for Wellington either. Holding him back.

 

[NZTailender]

Really don't like the "make the hot new batter keep more" meme for our T20 sides.

 

[SteveNZ]

Really don't like the "make the hot new batter keep more" meme for our T20 sides.

Totally agree. It can't do much for their core skill either (batting) - not that I've ever kept, but if you're out there battling with the gloves on, something you're not accustomed to doing, having to work mentally much tougher to get it semi-decent, is that the best preparation to go out there and score runs? Finn Allen is not an option. Neither should Conway be, really - any one of Seifert, Fletcher and Cleaver should be locked in to the side.

Incidentally, my money is on Fletcher. He's got that personality that I think would transfer really well into international cricket. Tough cricketer - scores runs in big moments. Also as an aside, I played against him in his debut club game - he was playing for Grafton and he must've been 15-16. Wouldn't have been 5 foot tall. He couldn't really get it off the square, and was getting hoed into a bit, but stuck around for a long time and looked every inch a competitor. Think he's evolved in a bigger version of that

 

[nzfan]

As much as Cam is performing as well as for Canterbury I think if there is a spot for a keeper opens up (In T20s) it'll be Cleaver that'll get the nod I think. Not so sure they will go with Blundell. They've tried Blundell and to be fair to Blundell he barely had few balls to show what he could do with the bat. Fletcher has come along quite nicely though. Couple of years or three ago he scored a fantastic hundred vs NZ A and don't think he played for NZ A after strangely.

 

[NZTailender]

From the game on Saturday both Phillips and Fletcher looked head and shoulders above the rest quality wise. I'd back Fletcher to do a good job at 5/6 in the Black Caps side

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

What would the NZ 2nd XI for Tests be these days?

1. Ravindra
2. Rutherspud/Raval
3. McClure
4. Chapman
5. Bruce/Phillips
6. Cleaver/Fletcher
7. Nathan Smith
8. Rippon
9. Henry
10. Sears
11. Ferguson

Or

1. Ravindra
2. Rutherspud/Raval
3. McClure
4. Chapman
5. Bruce/Phillips
6. Cleaver/Fletcher
7. CdG
8. Smith
9. Henry
10. Ajaz
11. Ferguson

I guess those are the conservative sort of selections. The O'Donnells and Johnson have been two of the better younger batsmen in recent times.

Sure I've missed someone obvious though.

 

[nzfan]

Of the lot above only Sears, Ravindra, Ajaz, Raval, Henry, one of Cleaver/Cam and maybe Phillips would make the cut. CDG is done I think, he will play t20s around the world. I don't think we will have a reasonable second XI in tests. Nathan Smith is there and there abouts but I'd think he'd make the white ball squad rather than tests.

Henry Cooper I think would be ahead of Ruds, McClure, Chapman, Bruce etc...

 

[Athlai]

Ferguson > Henry

 

[straw man]

There was that weird article the other day suggesting J Carter, R O'Donnell and L Carter would be looked at as next batting reserves. Can't see the latter two being anywhere near. Although his FC average is still a poor 33, J Carter's last four seasons have all been 40+ so he might be at a stretch - a late bloomer?

Henry Cooper I think would be ahead of Ruds, McClure, Chapman, Bruce etc...

+1

 

[Immenso]

There was that weird article the other day suggesting J Carter, R O'Donnell and L Carter would be looked at as next batting reserves. Can't see the latter two being anywhere near. Although his FC average is still a poor 33, J Carter's last four seasons have all been 40+ so he might be at a stretch - a late bloomer?

+1

I dont think it was next batting reserve, that article, but next potential debutants.?

Seeing as everyone gets a game in 1 of the 3 formats at some stage, there aren't many uncapped players in the pool.

Also. Seeing as all batsmen younger than McClure / O'Donnell years are a bit crap .... not as bad picks as you may think. Pointless, but not necessarily off the dartboard in terms of likelihood.

But ... I didn't actually read the article.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Also. Seeing as all batsmen younger than McClure / O'Donnell years are a bit crap .... not as bad picks as you may think. Pointless, but not necessarily off the dartboard in terms of likelihood.

Troy Johnson's building up some pretty decent stats, but tbf, I've only seen him in limited overs matches and he looked a bit of a mess in the games I've seen. Haven't managed to get to a FC game since COVID and should probably aim to do so.

Btw, anyone planning on heading to Seddon Park for the Netherlands games? Planning a road trip for the double-header.

 

[Moss]

It's been brought up before, but I think the India series as well as these 2 tests showed how invaluable de Grandhomme was to the side as a bowler. His ability to take up a decent workload, dry up the runs, keep the batsmen honest and at a pinch even take the new ball made things a lot easier for the frontliners. Clearly Mitchell (just about in the Craig McMillan category maybe?) and Ravindra (early days though) aren't direct substitutes, and that's reflected in the way Latham and Williamson have tended to use the fifth bowler in CdG's absence. Southee and Jamieson in particular have been probably overbowled as a result.

I suppose Mitchell will be the default choice for that spot for at least the South Africa and England series, and fair enough - both sides have challenging attacks and we could definitely use some batting depth. But definitely worry about the increased workload the pace quartet has to carry - perhaps one solution is to make Ajaz a more permanent member of the lineup and try to rotate the quicks as England as Australia have been doing for some time now.

 

[Flem274*]

Jamieson has looked a bit off in this series. The relentless accuracy isn't there and I don't think he's bowled a single outswinger.

I don't want to add him to the Boult category of sneaky declines.

 

[nzfan]

It's been brought up before, but I think the India series as well as these 2 tests showed how invaluable de Grandhomme was to the side as a bowler. His ability to take up a decent workload, dry up the runs, keep the batsmen honest and at a pinch even take the new ball made things a lot easier for the frontliners. Clearly Mitchell (just about in the Craig McMillan category maybe?) and Ravindra (early days though) aren't direct substitutes, and that's reflected in the way Latham and Williamson have tended to use the fifth bowler in CdG's absence. Southee and Jamieson in particular have been probably overbowled as a result.

I suppose Mitchell will be the default choice for that spot for at least the South Africa and England series, and fair enough - both sides have challenging attacks and we could definitely use some batting depth. But definitely worry about the increased workload the pace quartet has to carry - perhaps one solution is to make Ajaz a more permanent member of the lineup and try to rotate the quicks as England as Australia have been doing for some time now.

I think both Darryl and Rachin will prove to be the point of difference going forward. Look forward to the day when both will play and have an impact. I have full faith in Ravindra's bowling having looked at ball by ball bowling to Bangladesh. On a good day he'd have walked away with reasonable number of wickets. There will be days when you bowl worse and take more poles. That's just the way cricket works I guess. The pitch looked fairly flat on day 3 of mount, England will provide much better assistance to spin bowling. CDG I guess is done with the red ball. We may still see him in white ball cricket but I guess he's moved on from red ball cricket. Darryl has improved his bowling over the last couple of season but he has barely bowled at international cricket. He needs to bowl some overs to get going. Expecting him to bowl like 5 overs and taking many wickets is not possible every time. It'll come with time.

I don't think the team composition will change much. Even if Ajaz is picked he won't be playing in either tests I guess. Leave him be, pick him for white ball cricket and let him get some cricket under his belt. He's not a bad white ball bowler.

 

[nzfan]

With the test players more or less chosen for the south africa squad (the only logical change I can contemplate is Ajaz for Rachin). I think they will continue to pick rachin but chances are he won't play at Hagley or Basin unless we drop a test match and batting is a worry. Even if we have tough time with the bat can't see any opening for rachin unless Nicholls or Darryl bag a pair. With that in mind I think the squad to aussie could be

Allen
Guptill
Worker
M Bracewell
Chappy
Phillips
Seifert
Santner
CDG
Lockie
Duffy
Sears
Kuggs/Tickener
Ish
Ajaz

 

[thierry henry]

I actually think Boult looked to be a little on the decline about 2 years ago and in the last 2-3 months has been on a sneaky incline. But basically he’s still Trent Boult.

 

[Days of Grace]

With the test players more or less chosen for the south africa squad (the only logical change I can contemplate is Ajaz for Rachin). I think they will continue to pick rachin but chances are he won't play at Hagley or Basin unless we drop a test match and batting is a worry. Even if we have tough time with the bat can't see any opening for rachin unless Nicholls or Darryl bag a pair. With that in mind I think the squad to aussie could be

Allen
Guptill
Worker
M Bracewell
Chappy
Phillips
Seifert
Santner
CDG
Lockie
Duffy
Sears
Kuggs/Tickener
Ish
Ajaz

Wait, isn't Ross Taylor meant to be in that squad as well? Which was the whole point of him missing the South Africa tests?

 

[nzfan]

Wait, isn't Ross Taylor meant to be in that squad as well? Which was the whole point of him missing the South Africa tests?

Sakes that's right. No place for Bracewell then. Shame I've moved Taylor on already.

 

[NZTailender]

What's up with Neesh? I see he played on the 8th of Jan.

We're playing 3 ODIs and one random T20I so I don't see too many T20 specialists going just for one game.

If we go off the current contracted players list and those unlikely to play the test series:

de Grandhomme
Ferguson
Guptill
Henry
Neesham
Phillips
Santner
Sodhi
Taylor

Plus 6 guys from this list who are fairly regular in and around the T20I and ODI side:
Allen
Astle
Bennett
Bracewell
Chapman
Duffy
Kuggeleijn
Milne
Sears
Seifert
Tickner
Ravindra

Dunno if they'd go back to Bennett - he's 34, but he does have experience, ditto Bracewell, who can also "bat". Remains to be seen if they keep Rachin with the Test squad or cut him loose for some more overseas L/O experience

It may end up looking something like:
de Grandhomme
Ferguson
Guptill
Henry
Neesham
Phillips
Santner
Sodhi
Taylor
Allen
Chapman
Seifert+
Rachin/Astle
Fletcher/Cleaver+
Sears/Milne

Do we now when the squads announced? This is probably the first time in ages I've looked forward to a ODI series, purely because we'll be getting a good look at some non-regulars.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Kuggeleijn hasn't produced any performances of note this season in domestics. I can see no justification for further cappage for him. I haven't seen him bowl, so don't know what pace he's generating this season, but my understanding of his selection in the past was that he's quicker than most of our seamers which, perhaps, if it's still the case, could mean the selectors see him as useful for Australia. However, there are better options.