Two Tier Test Championship?

[Rich2001]

By the way, how come Bangladesh get a full tour of Australia before Zimbabwe who have not played a single test in Australia since they were admitted in 1992?!!

Don't Zimbabwe tour there this year stright after Bangladesh?

 

[royGilchrist]

You should put things in perspective a little bit.

First of all calling these teams in the WC does not help improve circket standard in these countries.

Secondly, a few amtches in the WC is not the answer. If ICC really wants to improve countries in these other countries, they should arrange for them to play test and ODI series with regular test nations.

WC should be the showcase of the best talent and the best matches. And if an extra day is reserved for rain affected matches instead of some bangladesh/Kenya type match, I would much prefer that.

The ICC trophy idea was much better in my opinion.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Without the World Cup to aim for, cricket in these countries would suffer no end.

I'm not trying to say that the 2003 WC scheduling wasn't inept and incompetent with captal Is - it was - but these provide so much good as long as it's not overdosed, that taking it away is a backward step.

Kenya. West Indies. 1996.

Zimbabwe. India. Kapil Dev. 1983.

Kenya. Sri Lanka. Zimbabwe. 2003.

Bangladesh. Pakistan. 1999.

The only reason this "two-tier" argument comes up is due to the too-early admission of Bangladesh into the Test Arena.

 

[royGilchrist]

Neil,

The exxamples you cited of exciting matches in the WC between non-test playing (TP) nations and regular test-playing nations, are interesting.

One of them, Zim-Ind in 1983 took place in the era when only one team was chosen from among the non-TP nations. And Pak-Bang everyone is aware was not a genuine result anyways. Infact this result might have been one of the worst things that could happen to cricket in the recent days, whcih has been detrimental to both cricket in general and Bangladesh cricket itself.

The winner of the ICC trophy should represent all the non-TP nations in the WC, IMO.

 

[Neil Pickup]

The Ban-Pak example was a wind-up. You won't find anyone who truly believes it was a genuine upset.

I think that is argument is only really coming to light because of the ICC's insistence on the inclusion of so many non-event matches in the World Cup. Having 2 (even 3) minnows in groups of 7 results in a huge mass of, well, you know what I mean.

Spreading it so there's only 1 "minnow" per group would alleviate this and, IMO, end this argument.

 

[royGilchrist]

agreed

 

[Deja moo]

Don't Zimbabwe tour there this year stright after Bangladesh?

Actually after ban, its india who go to aus for 4 tests...then the vb series between aus-ind-zim....i dont think zim play any tests in aus after that...

I think the ICC should take a few tips from FIFA in the way the latter recently declined to expand the football WC to 36 teams..Teams shouldnt make the world cup just because the apex body wants to involve more countries, but because these new countries have proved themselves ....

Recently Sunny made ther suggestion of including either Australia's or England's domestic champion in India's Duleep trophy( which currently has 5 zonal teams)..this has been accepted by Dalmiya and only requires the assent of ACB or ECB..
(Duleep trophy is India's number 2 championship after Ranji trophy)

I think all test playing nations should involve one new minnow team each in their domestic leagues.....this is a much better way to provide the teams with cricketing exposure...

But of course the ICC could have proposed this much earlier, but these matches cannot be telecast as "international" matches,depriving the ICC of revenue...this seems to me to be the only reason why the ICC would rather earn money from mismatches than take the serious route to their development.

 

[marc71178]

I think all test playing nations should involve one new minnow team each in their domestic leagues.....this is a much better way to provide the teams with cricketing exposure...

I'm afraid for cost reasons this is not going to happen though - the better way IMO is the 'A' Tours (or Academy Tour as England now have)

 

[Slats4ever]

I think that this is silly.
I think a better idea would have a competition between
Australia
New Zealand
India
and a World XI made up of all other teams.
they shuold have one of these tourny's once every 2 years

 

[marc71178]

Can understand Aus, but what basis have you got for selecting the other countries?

 

[Rich2001]

Actually after ban, its india who go to aus for 4 tests...then the vb series between aus-ind-zim....i dont think zim play any tests in aus after that...

Well after making that statment I decided I better actually go and find out the answer :rolleyes: and I was right.

So what with Bangladesh and Zimbabwe, a nice easy summer for Australia awaits :saint:


Oct 2003

Wed 1 ACB Chairman's XI v Zimbabwe Lilac Hill Park, Perth Tour match

Fri 3 - Sun 5 Western Warriors v Zimbabwe W.A.C.A. Ground, Perth Tour match

Thu 9 - Mon 13 Australia v Zimbabwe W.A.C.A. Ground, Perth 1st Test

Fri 17 - Tue 21 Australia v Zimbabwe Sydney 2nd Test


Jan 2004

Thu 1 Australia A v Zimbabwe W.A.C.A. Ground, Perth Tour match

Sun 4 (D/N) Western Warriors v Zimbabwe W.A.C.A. Ground, Perth Tour match

Wed 7 (D/N) Australia A v Zimbabwe Adelaide Tour match

Sun 11 (D/N) Australia v Zimbabwe Sydney VB Series

Wed 14 India v Zimbabwe Hobart VB Series

Fri 16 Australia v Zimbabwe Hobart VB Series

Tue 20 (D/N) India v Zimbabwe Brisbane Cricket Ground VB Series

Sat 24 (D/N) India v Zimbabwe Adelaide VB Series

Mon 26 (D/N) Australia v Zimbabwe Adelaide VB Series

Thu 29 (D/N) Australia v Zimbabwe Melbourne VB Series


Feb 2004

Tue 3 (D/N) India v Zimbabwe W.A.C.A. Ground, Perth VB Series

 

[Neil Pickup]

Originally posted by Rich2001
Well after making that statment I decided I better actually go and find out the answer :rolleyes: and I was right.

So what with Bangladesh and Zimbabwe, a nice easy summer for Australia awaits :saint:

And then India...

Simple :saint:

 

[Tim]

Well Its fairly safe to say that the VB Series will be a two-sided affair next year after a couple of close ones previously.

The pick of ODI Series should be in October when India play Australia & NZ, although im predicting that India will play Australia in the final.

 

[marc71178]

Well Its fairly safe to say that the VB Series will be a two-sided affair next year after a couple of close ones previously.

I just said that about the Natwest Triangular....

 

[royGilchrist]

I think that this is silly.
I think a better idea would have a competition between
Australia
New Zealand
India
and a World XI made up of all other teams.
they shuold have one of these tourny's once every 2 years

This is one of the dumbest things I have heard in a long time.

Just because Austrailia are the best team right now, and India, NZ in some peoples mind (not mine) are marginally better than others, we should have them play independently and dismantle every other team to make a world eleven!!

I am not sure if you realize that teams do not stay the same level forever, but they actually become better or worse as time goes on.

Even Aus, might not be as invincible as they are now, in about ten years time.

 

[Bazza]

I think the ICC should take a few tips from FIFA in the way the latter recently declined to expand the football WC to 36 teams..Teams shouldnt make the world cup just because the apex body wants to involve more countries, but because these new countries have proved themselves ....

Except FIFA did expand the competition from 24 teams to 32 not so long ago (France 98 wasn't it?), which resulted in an extra 12 matches, adding like a week to the length of the tournament and lowering the overall standard.

Then last year (with all due respect to thse nations), we had a poor tournament. Japan and South Korea went far for no apparent reason, Turkey made the semi finals, the USA (oh the shame) went far and Germany made it to the final by virtue of consistently meeting these teams. This can be compared to the ICC's stance 'allowing' Kenya and Zimbabwe to progress to the super six....

 

[Jamee999]

I know people are not going to be happy cos I pulled a ancient thread back BUT There should be 3 test groups eg.

Group 1 Group 2 Group 3

England Australia South Africa
Pakistan Sri Lanka India
West Indies Zimbabwe New Zealand
Minnows Bangladesh Kenya


With top 2 sides going through and 3rd place sides going in a Natwest Trophy (VB Trophy) style triangular tournament with top 2 sides going through

This leaves eg.

England,Australia,South Africa,Pakistan,Sri Lanka,India Minnows,New Zealand in a KO competiton the venue should be on a rota like ENG-AUS-SAF-PAK+SRL-IND-WIN-NZL

Mean while the outher 4 teams in this case West Indies,Zimbabwe,Bangladesh and Kenya should have a mini league with a hosting rota AUS-IND+BAN-PAK-ZIM+KEN-SAF-NZL-ENG-SRL-WIN

With the winner getting a better seeding for next year's draw.


Jamee

 

[gibbsnsmith]

what the hell is with Orange Pitch's strange interest in Bart Simpson nude?

God, man Paedopiles are bad enough, let alone Cartoon Paedos...



On the topic:

I feel that this is a bit drastic, the sides are all improving at the moment IMO, so why is there a need for such drastic action...

 

[Neil Pickup]

There should be 3 test groups

Why? What's wrong at present?

Besides, your changes would create more uncompetitive games.

 

[JohnnyA]

Get everyone in the same country or geographical area for 2 or 3 months every 2 to 3 years. Everyone plays each other once, and the 2 top teams playoff for the title of world champion ... just like how other sports do it.

The league table would be a useful marker to go alongside the tournament, and provide additional spice to the normal test series. Also it makes the likes of England and Oz play series against Bangledesh and Zimbabwe home and away, when clearly they do not want to.

Jon

EDIT: or better still ... use the league table to judge the best 6 teams, and have those 6 play off for the title of World's best. That way there can be no doubt!!!!

The league table is then nothing more than a qualifying table for the ultimate goal ... the World Test Match Tournament. When the tournament is over, the league starts from scratch, leading up to the next tournament.

Great idea ... even if I say so myself!!!!

This talk of spliting into groups is nonsense. There aren't enough teams for 2 groups let alone 3 or 4.