Trescothick - Why can't he take his home test form abroad?

[tooextracool]

Speed isn't the key with trescothick, he's done fine against the likes of Akhtar etc..

when has tresco done well against akthar?? and enlighten me about the etc....

Its bounce off a length that does him, like a lot of batsmen. If he can read the pitch (i.e its flat and true) he can usually make a good fist of it: see edgbaston against mcgrath this year.

doubt it, his footwork is so bad that when the conditions are even slightly seamer friendly, its extremely simple to get the edge. however because he has such a good eye, an 80 mph merchant is going to cause him too many problems, even on seamer friendly wickets because he can negotiate the movement.

 

[Barney Rubble]

...the whingers will die soon probably anyway...

I'm going straight to Hell for laughing at that!

Why do the oldies hate Tresco and Ol' Big Ears? Tresco signed some autographs in front of the non-members section (the one with the roof) once at the end of last year after the WI series (he was at the ground for the Middx game but not playing) and there were plenty chatting to him and he seemed like a popular guy....I've met him 3 times and he's a friendly bloke.

And it's not like he or Caddick ever actually play for Somerset anyway...

 

[twctopcat]

when has tresco done well against akthar?? and enlighten me about the etc....

Natwest 70 odd off 50 wasn't bad. And he did get a pretty good double ton against pollock and ntini. He has only really failed against Australia, and that can be said against a lot of batsmen.

doubt it, his footwork is so bad that when the conditions are even slightly seamer friendly, its extremely simple to get the edge. however because he has such a good eye, an 80 mph merchant is going to cause him too many problems, even on seamer friendly wickets because he can negotiate the movement.

So mcgrath is an 80mph merchant is he? As we see with players like Sehwag as well, this game isn't always about footwork and technique, and there are exceptions to every rule.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Natwest 70 odd off 50 wasn't bad. And he did get a pretty good double ton against pollock and ntini. He has only really failed against Australia, and that can be said against a lot of batsmen.

Made a couple of 60s last VB series with England + the 81 in the CT. He can score there as well.

 

[tooextracool]

Natwest 70 odd off 50 wasn't bad..

test match cricket please.....

And he did get a pretty good double ton against pollock and ntini...

yes i know, at the oval, where he scores almost half his runs in england.he came out with a brilliant average in that series because of that one test, therefore people seem to forget that before that test, he was averaging in the hig 20s.

He has only really failed against Australia, and that can be said against a lot of batsmen....

so the number of failures against best and edwards and the WI is all just coincidence then?

So mcgrath is an 80mph merchant is he?

yes he is, hes certainly doesnt get it anywhere over 85 mph. regardless, tresco hasnt succeeded against mcgrath either so there really is no point in arguing that.

As we see with players like Sehwag as well, this game isn't always about footwork and technique, and there are exceptions to every rule.

no one with as abysmal a footwork as tresco can succeed, you cannot just slash at everything outside the off stump without moving your feet, because when the conditions are conducive for the bowlers especially with pace, they will get you out.
as far as sehwag is concerned, ive said this before and i'll say it again, sehwag has shown on a number of occasions that he does have good footwork, there have been a number of occasions, even the 100 against australia recently, where he applied himself and scored his runs, rather than just slogged everything out of the park. usually when the pitch is flat or its a really bad ball, he tends to go after it without moving his feet and that is prefectly acceptable given his eye, just like its perfectly acceptable for trescothick to play those glued fleet cover drives on flat wickets.

 

[twctopcat]

test match cricket please.....

As far as i know he's only had 1 test against Akhtar so that's irrelevant. But he did get a ton against wasim and waqar, but i suppose they were getting on a bit.

yes i know, at the oval, where he scores almost half his runs in england.he came out with a brilliant average in that series because of that one test, therefore people seem to forget that before that test, he was averaging in the hig 20s.

So we should blame him for a great knock then, he should have stuck to his low scores!!!

so the number of failures against best and edwards and the WI is all just coincidence then?

Again he got a couple of tons and seemed to sort out his knack of them bowling him through the gate.

yes he is, hes certainly doesnt get it anywhere over 85 mph. regardless, tresco hasnt succeeded against mcgrath either so there really is no point in arguing that.

I've seen him above 85 mph in the actual match that tres got 80 odd against him! I know it may be a one off but weak as he may be, i think tres is slowly starting to play to his strengths rather than dabbling around off stump. He will never be the best with regards to playing a seaming ball, but then again those who can are very few, and i doubt anyone here ever thought tres in that select group, but he ain't a complete mug.

 

[Scaly piscine]

no one with as abysmal a footwork as tresco can succeed

You heard it here first folks.

Once you see Tresco applying himself properly, you then see him leaving the ball well and he's very tough to get out. It's only when he gets it into his thick head that he should be racing along at a run a ball and his defence can't hold out for long that he gets out to those widish drives.

 

[tooextracool]

As far as i know he's only had 1 test against Akhtar so that's irrelevant. But he did get a ton against wasim and waqar, but i suppose they were getting on a bit..

yes neither of them really had the pace then to worry him and really they both struggled in that series anyways. azhar mahmood was their best bowler in that series if that says something about how badly everyone else bowled.

So we should blame him for a great knock then, he should have stuck to his low scores!!!..

no he cannot be blamed, it was a fairly good knock but it must be looked at it context. flat pitch and it was at the oval, a pitch that he really seems to know everything about.

Again he got a couple of tons and seemed to sort out his knack of them bowling him through the gate

yes he got a couple of tons, interestingly enough both best and edwards his nemesis werent playing in that game.

I've seen him above 85 mph in the actual match that tres got 80 odd against him! I know it may be a one off but weak as he may be, i think tres is slowly starting to play to his strengths rather than dabbling around off stump. He will never be the best with regards to playing a seaming ball, but then again those who can are very few, and i doubt anyone here ever thought tres in that select group, but he ain't a complete mug.

tresco has never got anything more than 76 against australia, so i dont know which game you are talking about. and of course he isnt a complete mug with the bat, but as england continue to pick him he will continue to fail on any wicket that assists a seamer, he will continue to be inconsistent and will have the odd good game followed by a string of bad games, and basically can never be relied upon at any point of his career.

 

[tooextracool]

You heard it here first folks.

Once you see Tresco applying himself properly, you then see him leaving the ball well and he's very tough to get out. It's only when he gets it into his thick head that he should be racing along at a run a ball and his defence can't hold out for long that he gets out to those widish drives.

tresco certainly doesnt have too many problems leaving the ball, his problems stem from the fact that he cant leave the ball forever and therefore also needs to score runs. most bowlers now have figured out the fact that they need to bowl it outside the off stump from over the wicket to him consistently and with trescos limited footwork with a little bit of assistance from the pitch he will eventually get out.

 

[twctopcat]

yes he got a couple of tons, interestingly enough both best and edwards his nemesis werent playing in that game.

They were all as hot and cold as each other (west indian bowlers that is). IMO the best WI bowler was bravo followed by Collins so it's not as if the two hundreds weren't completely praise worthy.

tresco has never got anything more than 76 against australia, so i dont know which game you are talking about. and of course he isnt a complete mug with the bat, but as england continue to pick him he will continue to fail on any wicket that assists a seamer, he will continue to be inconsistent and will have the odd good game followed by a string of bad games, and basically can never be relied upon at any point of his career.

My fault again, his champions trophy knock doesn't count here!

 

[tooextracool]

They were all as hot and cold as each other (west indian bowlers that is). IMO the best WI bowler was bravo followed by Collins so it's not as if the two hundreds were completely praise worthy.

yes they were, but one must remember that neither of them are of extreme pace, which is what he struggles against.

 

[Scaly piscine]

My fault again, his champions trophy knock doesn't count here!

Of course not, you're not allowed to use any examples that might in anyway stuff tooextracool's argument, such as a Test average of a shade under 43 with a good strike rate. Or even an ODI average of 38.29 with 8 centuries, most of which were gotten in very difficult circumstances - all inadmissable as evidence I'm afraid. I mean as tooextracool said "no one with as abysmal a footwork as tresco can succeed" so that means he simply couldn't have ever scored those runs, must have been a doppelganger or an identical twin.

 

[twctopcat]

Of course not, you're not allowed to use any examples that might in anyway stuff tooextracool's argument, such as a Test average of a shade under 43 with a good strike rate. Or even an ODI average of 38.29 with 8 centuries, most of which were gotten in very difficult circumstances - all inadmissable as evidence I'm afraid. I mean as tooextracool said "no one with as abysmal a footwork as tresco can succeed" so that means he simply couldn't have ever scored those runs, must have been a doppelganger or an identical twin.

I was just trying to amuse myself!! People like tres happen all the time in all sorts of sports, not just cricket. And as you rightly point out, he ain't half bad!

 

[twctopcat]

yes they were, but one must remember that neither of them are of extreme pace, which is what he struggles against.

I thought it was seam movement?

 

[tooextracool]

Of course not, you're not allowed to use any examples that might in anyway stuff tooextracool's argument, such as a Test average of a shade under 43 with a good strike rate. Or even an ODI average of 38.29 with 8 centuries, most of which were gotten in very difficult circumstances - all inadmissable as evidence I'm afraid. I mean as tooextracool said "no one with as abysmal a footwork as tresco can succeed" so that means he simply couldn't have ever scored those runs, must have been a doppelganger or an identical twin.

perhaps because all those things support my claim just as well? when i label him as a flat track bully, i do expect him to score runs in ODIs, because those are played predominently on flat tracks. which is why ive always said that hes an excellent ODI player. lets see you explain some of his 'mysterious' losses of form in test match cricket, lets see you explain how the same person who coudnt score a run in the tests in the WI managed to average 66 in the ODIs. how he magically gets his form in the only game in which tino best and edwards dont play in in england. how ntini,gillespie,best and edwards have dismissed him 21 times in total.

 

[tooextracool]

I thought it was seam movement?

its a combination of both, even though you only require marginal seam movement to get past trescos bat.

 

[Scaly piscine]

perhaps because all those things support my claim just as well? when i label him as a flat track bully, i do expect him to score runs in ODIs, because those are played predominently on flat tracks. which is why ive always said that hes an excellent ODI player. lets see you explain some of his 'mysterious' losses of form in test match cricket, lets see you explain how the same person who coudnt score a run in the tests in the WI managed to average 66 in the ODIs. how he magically gets his form in the only game in which tino best and edwards dont play in in england. how ntini,gillespie,best and edwards have dismissed him 21 times in total.

As I've said most of the ODI centuries were in tricky (at best) conditions, I think one was where Solanki got a ton as well so that was obviously none too tricky but the others were when the other England batsmen struggled a lot if not bowled out and 1 was against Pakistan with Shoaib Akhtar - I can also remember that time when he thumped 80 odd off 50 odd against Shoaib & Sami when they were bowling very fast and just got smashed all over the place. As for Gillespie I think he'll have to work much harder to get Trescothick next year and everyone has bowlers who get a good run against them.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

its a combination of both, even though you only require marginal seam movement to get past trescos bat.

He looked to be just putting the bat down (sometimes barely in time) against fullish and length delieveries from Tino Best and Edwards this year. I noticed, but it didn't really strike me until you pointed it out. I can't comment on his play against other countries because I haven't seen much of it.

 

[Richard]

As I've said most of the ODI centuries were in tricky (at best) conditions, I think one was where Solanki got a ton as well so that was obviously none too tricky but the others were when the other England batsmen struggled a lot if not bowled out and 1 was against Pakistan with Shoaib Akhtar

Yes, of course they were, weren't they? Just because the other batsmen weren't good enough doesn't mean the conditions were difficult.
vs Pakistan at Lord's - yes, the pitch was seaming, Waqar bowling seriously well for once - terrific knock. After, that is, he was dropped at third-man off a simple chance on 7 or so.
vs India at Eden Gardens - again, dropped at slip on 1 - one of the flattest pitches you can imagine.
vs India at Lord's - incredibly flat pitch, so easy for batting that India chased 326 to win.
vs Zimbabwe at Primadasa - pitch so flat that England scored 298.
vs Pakistan at Lord's - at least 3 let-offs in this innings, might even have been 4 or 5. One of the worst centuries you'll ever see.
vs SA at The Oval - another incredibly flat pitch, the Solanki 100 worth little more than 21 after being caught-behind off a Pollock no-ball.
vs WI at Gros Islet - a match of, oh, 565 runs off 98 overs - yes, batsmen struggled here, didn't they?
vs WI at The Oval - true, everyone else struggled. Everyone, that should be - because Trescothick also struggled most of the time, including when he was dropped early on.

 

[Richard]

Whilst ignoring the countless superb balls they bowl that don't get wickets...

Every ball is not an inddividual event, these 2 are the best at piling on the pressure and inducing the mistake, hence they have so many wickets.

Done this too many times to bother doing it again.