Tremors in Indian ODI team !!

[Jono]

Biases? How so. You could switch places, and imagine that Yuvraj and Kaif have scored runs in both games, and Dravid and Sehwag have failed, and I'd be saying the same thing. What you call bias, I call common sense and comparing what I'm saying to India vs. Pakistan 'nationalistic talks' is utterly ridiculous. Especially for me where I am not from where any of these players are from in India (Since I am born in Australia) so I hold absolutely no territorial bias at all to Kaif, Yuvraj or anyone. I find the accusation extremely silly.

Dhoni scores an impressive ton (and well done to him for that) and suddenly Kaif and Yuvraj are under pressure. This after two matches. Two matches! I can't help but think that maybe, just maybe, Sehwag and Dravid's brilliant form in the tests is being merged with this 'worries' about the ODI form of our other batsman. If Kaif fails in the next two matches as well, that too when he's actually got time at the crease (no not 9 overs to go, that's not what he's suited for) then maybe there are reasons for worry. Until then, how about we think that possibly Pakistan have just been able to claw themselves back into games after good starts from Sehwag? At least in the first match.

I remind you its two games. Yet apparently Mongia is a chance to replace Kaif, and Dhoni who as well as he must have played, hadn't been anything spectacular before that, warrants a spot up the order whilst Kaif is much better suited to that role.

 

[SJS]

Biases? How so. You could switch places, and imagine that Yuvraj and Kaif have scored runs in both games, and Dravid and Sehwag have failed, and I'd be saying the same thing. What you call bias, I call common sense and comparing what I'm saying to an India vs. Pakistan 'nationalistic talks' is utterly ridiculous. Especially for me where I am not from where any of these players are from in India (Since I am born in Australia) so I hold absolutely no bias at all. I find the accusation extremely silly.

Dhoni scores an impressive ton (and well done to him for that) and suddenly Kaif and Yuvraj are under pressure. This after two matches. Two matches! I can't help but think that maybe, just maybe, Sehwag and Dravid's brilliant form in the tests is being merged with this 'worries' about the ODI form of our other batsman. If Kaif fails in the next two matches as well, that too when he's actually got time at the crease (no not 9 overs to go, that's not what he's suited for) then maybe there are reasons for worry. Until then, how about we think that possibly Pakistan have just been able to claw themselves back into games after good starts from Sehwag? At least in the first match.

I remind you its two games. Yet apparently Mongia is a chance to replace Kaif, and Dhoni who as well as he must have played, hadn't been anything spectacular before that, warrants a spot up the order whilst Kaif is much better suited to that role.

I said it would show "their own bias" if they accused an observation with "Motives" as has been done on this thread to my starting thread. As far as the nationalistic stuff, I assumed you would have read the earlier posts so I did not give the context. It has nothing to do with you. I used it as an example to show how in another thread(Anwar vs Lara) an expression of an opinion favouring Lara was turned into a bias of all Indians Anyway. Thats not relevant.

Again you are going about defending Kaif and Yuvraj as if I have proposed that they should be dropped or sent lower down the order.

If you go back to the beginning of this thread, I have also suggested a side for the next game in batting order. I am repeating it.

1. Sehwag
2. Tendulkar
3. Dravid
4. Yuvraj
5. Mongia(since I think he might replace Kaif. If not, Kaif should be at this spot)
6. Ganguly
7. Dhoni
8. Pathan
9. Balaji
10 Harbhajan
11. Nehra

So where have I advocated Dhoni being prefered to either of them in any way ??

CAN YOU TELL ME EXACTLY, WHICH SENTENCE OF MINE BOTHERS YOU ??

I would really like to know. But please dont use the sentences that are in response to someone since in that case the context needs to be gone into. If you do that I have no problem.

I am waiting.

 

[Jono]

CAN YOU TELL ME EXACTLY, WHICH SENTENCE OF MINE BOTHERS YOU ??

I am waiting.

And you claim it is me overreacting? You're transforming this from a discussion to an aggressive argument. For what reason I am not sure. There isn't any real need for that tone.

I would really like to know. But please dont use the sentences that are in response to someone since in that case the context needs to be gone into. If you do that I have no problem.

So let me get this straight. You want me to quote a post, in which you are directly responding to me, or else not bother to quote evidence at all? Well that defeats the whole purpose of a message board. I have responded to posts you made whilst in discussion with other people. I don't believe them to be out of context at all, so I shall post them anyway (so as to 'not keep you waiting' too long).

Again you are going about defending Kaif and Yuvraj as if I have proposed that they should be dropped or sent lower down the order.

So where have I advocated Dhoni being prefered to either of them in any way ??

On top of claiming that Mongia will replace Kaif, you did say this:

I think Dhoni should and will bat at number three. Either he will be a reasonable success and continue or he will have to fail for a few innings on a trot badly for it to be taken as a flash in the pan. I think he has done himself and, hopefully, the Indian ODI team a great favour. Ganguly does somethings right

As I have said COUNTLESS times. I'm happy for Dhoni doing well, I was absolutely ecstatic when I saw he had scored 140+. I was shocked, but couldn't wipe the smile off my face. However I believe myself to be a rational thinker when it comes to cricket, and still believe that Kaif's failings (if you can call them that) are as a result of him batting at 7. I think 3 or 4 (or at lowest 5) is his best position. Dhoni I believe can bat lower for the time being, even if he does bat at 3 at domestic level. I believe Kaif's style to be 100% suited to the number 3 or 4 role in ODI cricket, and I believe him to be a more vital talent to the Indian team at the moment.

And if you are really interested in what 'sentences of yours bothers me', well I firstly believe the title of this thread to be a clear example of hyperbole. I find it quite hypocritical that you consider Indian fans (evident through your lovely signature, where 1 billion people are happily streotyped as one) to overreact so very often, yet in this instance you have done the same (possibly showing that it is human nature to get excited? Yet this very nature is often criticised on this board). I know you've stated points as to why you have reacted in the way you have (Eg. the way he played etc.) but I bet every other Indian fan has reasons for their overreactions as well. Do you really blame people for thinking Pathan was going to be India's saviour after his two wickets against Australia (The Steve Waugh & Gilly double)? The overreaction was excessive, but you can see why it happened. People on this board like to criticise overreaction, I believe you're one of them (and most of the time it is justified), but in this case I feel you're doing what you often criticise. Perhaps you're not too different from the other mere mortal Indian fans like myself?

 

[SJS]

And you claim it is me overreacting? You're transforming this from a discussion to an aggressive argument. For what reason I am not sure. There isn't any real need for that tone.

So let me get this straight. You want me to quote a post, in which you are directly responding to me, or else not bother to quote evidence at all? Well that defeats the whole purpose of a message board. I have responded to posts you made whilst in discussion with other people. I don't believe them to be out of context at all, so I shall post them anyway (so as to 'not keep you waiting' too long).


On top of claiming that Mongia will replace Kaif, you did say this:

As I have said COUNTLESS times. I'm happy for Dhoni doing well, I was absolutely ecstatic when I saw he had scored 140+. I was shocked, but couldn't wipe the smile off my face. However I believe myself to be a rational thinker when it comes to cricket, and still believe that Kaif's failings (if you can call them that) are as a result of him batting at 7. I think 3 or 4 (or at lowest 5) is his best position. Dhoni I believe can bat lower for the time being, even if he does bat at 3 at domestic level. I believe Kaif's style to be 100% suited to the number 3 or 4 role in ODI cricket, and I believe him to be a more vital talent to the Indian team at the moment.

And if you are really interested in what 'sentences of yours bothers me', then I find it quite hypocritical that you consider Indian fans (evident through your lovely signature, where 1 billion people are happily streotyped as one) to overreact so very often, yet you have done the same. I know you've stated points as to why you have reacted in that way (Eg. the way he played etc.) but I bet every other Indian fan has reasons for their overreaction as well. Do you really blame people for thinking Pathan was going to be India's saviour after his two wickets against Australia (The Steve Waugh & Gilly double)? The overreaction was excessive, but you can see why it happened. People on this board like to criticise overreaction, I believe you're one of them (and most of the time it is justified), but in this case I feel you're doing what you often criticise.

Its a bit late and I have to leave. But I will respond tomorrow. In the meantime please free to quote from any post of mine. I did not put a ban on your quoting me but it becomes tedious at times to start looking for context. But its okay. I will reply to every thing in detail.

Goodnight.

 

[xan_pro]

here is the batting order for the next game:
sehwag
ganguly (why not try?)
sachin
dravid
yuvraj
kaif
dhoni
pathan
zaheer
harbhajan
nehra

 

[SJS]

Its a bit late and I have to leave. But I will respond tomorrow. In the meantime please free to quote from any post of mine. I did not put a ban on your quoting me but it becomes tedious at times to start looking for context. But its okay. I will reply to every thing in detail.

Goodnight.

I said, it seems such a long time ago, that..


the tremors I am talking about doesnt just pertain to Dhomi's knock, it is Dhoni's knock COMBINED with the failure of all except Sehwag and Dravid from the famous Indian line up.

I did not add tendulkar in this thread because he is opening otherwise, though run out once, he has scored 4 runs in two innings. That makes 52 runs in 8 innings by SCG, SRT, YS and MK. This has to be seen in the context of two of India's biggest wins over Pakistan in history of ODI's between the two countries. These wins have come mainly due to 630 odd runs scored by India in the two games. But take away, sehwag and Dravis and what has the famed Indian line up contributed ??

India has ben one catch by Pakistan early in Sehwag's innings away from disaster. Keep aside your patriotic fervour and ask yourself if Sehwag had been held early in both innings, what would India have scored ?


India's collapse today after Sehwag's slash was held by the fielder at short point says a lot. It is a terrible way to be proved right. I wish someone had gone about either defying the law of averages or taken the opportunity to salvage some honour for the team. Once again it was yet another less expected players who came and saved India from crumbling to their biggest ever ODI defeat.

I have nothing to say further on this matter. Its too painful. You guys can believe what you want.

 

[honestbharani]

I think Dhoni can be tried at no.5-7 as well. India has always been short of a big hitter at the slog and Dhoni could fit that bill perfectly. Him batting at no.3 should be more of a surprise option and only used occassionally... After all, as we saw in the last game, he wasn't so effective once they started bowling back of length and shorter.

 

[honestbharani]

Plus, I suggest a big reshuffle in the order as well....



Sourav
Sehwag
Kaif
Sachin
Dravid
Yuvi
Dhoni
the bowlers....



It could work out. Sourav loves to bat at the top and he has not been the same ever since he ceased to be the first choice opener for India in ODIs... IT could help him rediscover his form. Since he is not gonna be dropped and looks clueless batting at 3/4, this could be tried. Sachin is at his best as an opener too, but for the team's sake, he could bat at 4. He has done better than both Sourav and Sehwag at this position and a 50-70 there would be as crucial as a 100 as an opener from him, since we have not had a good no.4 since Azhar. Yuvi and Dhoni could be the power players that we are looking for towards the end of the innings. The more I see that batting order, the more convinced I am that it is the way to go.... Kaif at 3 will get to bat at the pace he wants to and plus, he will keep the scoreboard moving in the middle overs as him and Sachin are brilliant runners between the wickets.

 

[neutralguy]

Plus, I suggest a big reshuffle in the order as well....



Sourav
Sehwag
Kaif
Sachin
Dravid
Yuvi
Dhoni
the bowlers....



It could work out. Sourav loves to bat at the top and he has not been the same ever since he ceased to be the first choice opener for India in ODIs... IT could help him rediscover his form. Since he is not gonna be dropped and looks clueless batting at 3/4, this could be tried. Sachin is at his best as an opener too, but for the team's sake, he could bat at 4. He has done better than both Sourav and Sehwag at this position and a 50-70 there would be as crucial as a 100 as an opener from him, since we have not had a good no.4 since Azhar. Yuvi and Dhoni could be the power players that we are looking for towards the end of the innings. The more I see that batting order, the more convinced I am that it is the way to go.... Kaif at 3 will get to bat at the pace he wants to and plus, he will keep the scoreboard moving in the middle overs as him and Sachin are brilliant runners between the wickets.

Spot on batting order mate. but will sachin relinquish his batting order positio. That is the big question.We have seen that before world cup 2003 that sachin batted 2 down and he doesnt seem to be happy. i hope ganguly seriously thinks about this batting order.

 

[shoot_me]

I think Dhoni can be tried at no.5-7 as well. India has always been short of a big hitter at the slog and Dhoni could fit that bill perfectly. Him batting at no.3 should be more of a surprise option and only used occassionally... After all, as we saw in the last game, he wasn't so effective once they started bowling back of length and shorter.

Sehwag
Tendulkar
Dhoni
Kaif
Dravid
Yuvraj
Ganguly
Agarkar
Khan
Harbhajan
Nehra
But Dhoni has already batted at no.7 before and he failed miserably (22 runs from 4 innings). In comparison, he's played 2 innings at 3 and scored 174 runs. He was picked because of his success in the India A team and there too he batted at no. 3. If he fails, there wont be much need for panic as long as Kaif is at no. 4 and Dravid comes after that. And I've never really been a big fan of Ganguly opening, actually I've never really been a big fan of Ganguly batting at all, but I think he should go down the order and just play naturally. India have only two big-hitters in Yuvraj and Ganguly. The problem with his batting nowadays is that he's not playing to score runs for the team, he's playing for a century. He needs to simplify his approach and batting at no. 6 or 7 he can have a go at the ball and bat freely because his wicket wouldn't hurt the team. If ganguly decides to open, i'd expect him to be pretty defensive and that could do some major damage in the long run.

 

[Sanz]

I have always applauded Ganguly for ridding the selection from zonal bias but Ganguly has a big problem about people he favours and those he doesnt.

Harbhajan, Yuvraj and Zaheer top the first list. (Parthiv Patel, the late demented(oops) was another)

Karthik is the leader of the second group.

Ganguly will do a lot as captain to help his favourites and keep the second lot out.

Team selection, bowling changes(Kumble vs Harbhajan too) are a part of it.

Yesterday's insistence in bowling Yuvraj was also a part. Mongia's claim was strong for a place in the third game. Now.......we'll have to see.

Zaheer, Yuvraj, Harbhajan, Patel and Ganguly himself are back and your favorite best spinner of India Murali Kartik is out and where is Mongia now.

So much for your conspiracy theories and your blabbering. Blinkers on.