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Tour de France

Great Birtannia

U19 Captain
BoyBrumby said:
All the tiresome, disingenuous denials annoy me. I'd love a drugs cheat, just once, when he (or she) was pinged to say "it's a fair cop, guv".
David Millar? Or did he only repent well afterwards?

Two high profile americans testing positive to testosterone in a week. Ho hum.

Makes you wonder what Australian swimmers could be on. We've had a few cyclists and the odd "here's an Australian citizenship, represent us at the olympics" weight lifters, wrestlers and what not that they import from Eastern Europe but I can't think of a swimmer that's ever been nailed.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Great Birtannia said:
David Millar? Or did he only repent well afterwards?

Two high profile americans testing positive to testosterone in a week. Ho hum.

Makes you wonder what Australian swimmers could be on. We've had a few cyclists and the odd "here's an Australian citizenship, represent us at the olympics" weight lifters, wrestlers and what not that they import from Eastern Europe but I can't think of a swimmer that's ever been nailed.
Actually I think Millar did hold his hands up once his was caught. Loads of athletes continue to protest their innocence long after bans have been imposed & served tho. As far as I know Pantani (RIP) went to his grave without ever admitting his guilt.

As for swimming IIRC that Irish swimmer (Michelle De Bryuin, or something similar) was caught for tampering with her pee sample (contaminating it with whiskey I think).
 

Craig

World Traveller
They only found out because when French police raided Miller's house they found a hollowed out book with a syringe (sp?) as a macabre reminder not to dope as he felt gulity for taking EPO. And once he was arrested an being questioned in custody he confessed to it all.

From the cyclingnews.com website (cycling's version of cricinfo I guess or one of the top cricket websites out there):

L'Equipe reports exogenous testosterone in Landis' A sample

By Hedwig Kröner


The aftermath of 2006 Tour de France winner Floyd Landis' positive A probe for performance-enhancing hormone testosterone is far from over. Germany's public TV stations ARD and ZDF have since questioned their transmission of cycling races if the sports biggest problem is not solved, and the German cycling federation called for an anti-doping law in Germany on Saturday, one day prior to the ProTour one-day race Vattenfall Cyclassics in Hamburg.

To explain the positive doping test result after stage 17 of the Tour de France, which he won after an impressive solo ride in high mountains, Landis has argued that his relatively high level of testosterone was naturally produced by his own body. The analytical basis for the test being the ratio between testosterone and epitestosterone, normally averaging 1:1, a suspicion of doping is being issued if this ratio is higher than 4:1.

In Landis' case, German media have on Sunday rumoured the result to be 11:1 (all that can be assumed, however, is that Landis must have been over 4:1). "In our medical files appear not only blood levels, but also our testosterone status," said professional cyclists' representative Jens Voigt before the race. "It shouldn't be hard to find out if Landis is telling the truth."

But, much more important than this seems to be that the tests performed on Landis' A sample included an Isotope Ratio Mass Spectrometry (IRMS) procedure, used to determine whether the testosterone is exogenous (contained within, but originating from outside the body) or endogenous (produced by the body itself). In the case of Landis, L'Equipe reported that the analysis found testosterone of artificial origin.

It's understood the French newspaper received this information from a source within Chatenay-Malabry labortory that conducted the test on Landis' sample.

Jose Maria Buxeda, Landis' attorney, contests the detection method via IRMS. "It's not reliable," he told French L'Equipe. "Most laboratories do not use it. In fact, the laboratory of Chatenay-Malabry must be the only one still using it."

In the same edition of the paper, however, Christiane Ayotte, director of an anti-doping laboratory in Montreal, Canada, disagrees. "We use the method regularly," she said. "Moreover, more than half of the WADA-accredited labs perform it successfully. I'd even say that an IRMS which gives a synthetic result is very hard to contest. It's not a method that anyone can apply but the LNDD (Laboratoire de Chatenay-Malabry) has totally proven itself in this domain."

It has been pointed out that Landis' thyroid problems, the treatment of his inflamed hip with corticosteroids, as well as drinking alcohol on the night prior to stage 17, could be factors which could have affected his testosterone levels.

"As soon as an athlete is controlled positive for testosterone, the same old stories come up," Ayotte continued. "The increase, even if natural, of the ratio testosterone/epitestosterone cannot, in any case, be explained by taking thyroid hormones or corticosteroids. Alcohol can in fact influence it, but only with women, and only for three or four hours.
 

Craig

World Traveller
I have no idea ATM.

His own team are defending him, which I have to say is a first. They are speaking along the lines that they knew what he is capable of (especially what he does in training), and it has been a long time since we have seen an overall contender go on such a break, then see a climber like Virenque or Rasmussen who have a snowball in hell's chance of winning the Tour.

They also said if Landis was taking illegal substances, they would have already known (Phonak do own drug testing).
 

Matteh

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Craig said:
I have no idea ATM.

His own team are defending him, which I have to say is a first. They are speaking along the lines that they knew what he is capable of (especially what he does in training), and it has been a long time since we have seen an overall contender go on such a break, then see a climber like Virenque or Rasmussen who have a snowball in hell's chance of winning the Tour.

They also said if Landis was taking illegal substances, they would have already known (Phonak do own drug testing).
It could very easily have been a one off after he choked on the stage before thought he could do with some help if he wanted to get back into the Tour..
 

Craig

World Traveller
At least they are getting the cheats out of the sport. What other sports can say the same?

I'm not saying it is right, and I agree with the bans, but have you looked at the length of the stages and races and at the speeds they race at? 3500+km in three weeks, most people would struggle to drive a car around France in that distance in those amounts of weeks. In fact I will say that most cars won't hold up, so I can see why the tempation would be there, especially to get a result or two and get a new contract.

It's incredibily hard sport, one where those working in sales can make more then some professionals.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Craig said:
At least they are getting the cheats out of the sport. What other sports can say the same?

I'm not saying it is right, and I agree with the bans, but have you looked at the length of the stages and races and at the speeds they race at? 3500+km in three weeks, most people would struggle to drive a car around France in that distance in those amounts of weeks. In fact I will say that most cars won't hold up, so I can see why the tempation would be there, especially to get a result or two and get a new contract.

It's incredibily hard sport, one where those working in sales can make more then some professionals.

They're getting the blatant cheats out of the sport, you can go on about the achievements of cycling 3500+km in three weeks etc. all you like but it doesn't alter the fact that the competition has zero credibility.
 

Matteh

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
above article link said:
Landis' legal team criticised the UCI for announcing the results of the A sample without knowing the B sample result, believing that Landis' rights had been violated.
The sample came back positive, which would surely mean that he's guilty and the phrase innocent until proven guilty goes flying out the window.

The substance has been described as 'synthetic hormone' meaning it couldn't have been due to natural causes.

Now if only he can be man enough to admit it....
 

Mr Casson

Cricketer Of The Year
Matteh said:
The sample came back positive, which would surely mean that he's guilty and the phrase innocent until proven guilty goes flying out the window.

The substance has been described as 'synthetic hormone' meaning it couldn't have been due to natural causes.

Now if only he can be man enough to admit it....
Nah, Mum did it surely.
 

Craig

World Traveller
Scaly piscine said:
They're getting the blatant cheats out of the sport, you can go on about the achievements of cycling 3500+km in three weeks etc. all you like but it doesn't alter the fact that the competition has zero credibility.
As with the other sports?

Yes it is a major problem, and the sooner they start making more doctors and team bosses accountable the better.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Neil Pickup said:
Is there a case for making it a free for all?
I've heard it mooted before. There is an argument that the public don't really care how the performances are achieved; they just want to see the superhuman. I remember as a kid being blown away by Ben Johnson's run in the 100m at Seoul.

I guess the argument against is the long term damage the performance enhancers do to an athletes system. An "open" policy on drugs would mean it would be practically impossible to compete at the highest level without recourse to the pharmacy & this might jeopardise the athletes' long term health.

I guess the counter argument is that it is none of the authorities business what athletes do to themselves as they're adults & the current system is too "nanny state" & paternalisitc. I dunno.
 

Craig

World Traveller
Thought I would dig it up:

Phonak have now disbanded at the end of the year, with team owner Andy Riihs unable to find a new sponsor after iShares pulled out, meaning because of Landis a whole lot of riders, mechanics etc. will soon be out of a job and now isn't the time to be suddenly availible either, unless you are a superstar.

I guess a lot of guys now will be going in breakaways especially in ProTour races to get themselves on TV and impress potential employers and if the ygo back for water bottles to the team car, they they hope the camera is on them as well (all cars have a TV mounted in so they can view the race as it goes along), oh and a win would be nice.

While the cases of Ullrich and Basso will be heard in the next few weeks.
 

thewizard1o1

International Debutant
Also, there is a move by 17 of the pro tour teams to kick Phonak (Doping Systems) and Astana out now. If that is the case then it may be hard for them guys to get on TV....
 

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