Top Five Cricketers from each country

[trundler]

Ah! This is still going on, is it?

Let us get one thing straight: Sobers, Hadlee, Imran and Kallis are genuine all time greats of the game.

Botham and Kapil aren't. Though they were extremely valuable to the teams they played in.

One may call them ATVGs, eh.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Ah! This is still going on, is it?

Let us get one thing straight: Sobers, Hadlee, Imran and Kallis are genuine all time greats of the game.

Botham and Kapil aren't. Though they were extremely valuable to the teams they played in.

Both better than Imran , hadlee and Kallis as allrounders . True ATGs .

 

[h_hurricane]

Ah! This is still going on, is it?

Let us get one thing straight: Sobers, Hadlee, Imran and Kallis are genuine all time greats of the game.

Botham and Kapil aren't. Though they were extremely valuable to the teams they played in.

Both Botham and Kapil are ATGs. No question about it. It is just that they would need every bit of their secondary skill to get them there unlike the four you mentioned.

 

[Borges]

One may call them ATVGs, eh.

Botham and Kapil don't deserve to be ridiculed as ATVGs; both are way better than that. Just that the two are below the tier of genuine all time greats. .

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Botham and Kapil don't deserve to be ridiculed as ATVGs; both are way better than that. Just that the two are below the tier of genuine all time greats. .

In that case , there are only 2 genuine all-time greats. Sobers and Bradman.

Kapil and Botham with their bowling alone , very close to ATG status + they were capable of playing ATG innings with bat when needed.

I think , in last 100 years , only 5 players can be labelled as consistent match winners with both bat and ball .
Sobers , Miller , Procter , Botham and Kapil.

 

[trundler]

In that case , there are only 2 genuine all-time greats. Sobers and Bradman.

Kapil and Botham with their bowling alone , very close to ATG status + they were capable of playing ATG innings with bat when needed.

I think , in last 100 years , only 5 players can be labelled as consistent match winners with both bat and ball .
Sobers , Miller , Procter , Botham and Kapil.

Being rather generous to Kapil's bowling.

 

[Malcolm]

I think , in last 100 years , only 5 players can be labelled as consistent match winners with both bat and ball .
Sobers , Miller , Procter , Botham and Kapil.

And Shakib.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Being rather generous to Kapil's bowling.

Kapil was good enough for 25- 26ish bowling AVG. And don't forget that world record 434 wickets.

 

[smash84]

Kapil was good enough for 25- 26ish bowling AVG. And don't forget that world record 434 wickets.

Honestly, that is one thing I would rather forget about him.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Honestly, that is one thing I would rather forget about him.

What about Sachin's 100 X 100 ? Considering the long wait and quality of 100th 100.

 

[smash84]

What about Sachin's 100 X 100 ? Considering the long wait and quality of 100th 100.

that is a blot on his career too. Should have stopped chasing that phony statistic

 

[Lillian Thomson]

that is a blot on his career too. Should have stopped chasing that phony statistic

Definitely wouldn’t do to have any phony stats in this thread.

 

[Red]

One may call them ATVGs, eh.

No. Ridiculous.

 

[trundler]

No. Ridiculous.

You seem to have overlooked who and what I was replying to.

 

[Bolo]

Either way, it's silly he's criticised for lack of 100s and an average inflated by not outs. He was a number 8 and probably one of the highest averaging 8s ever. He succeeded in the role like few others have (though I haven't checked his individual averages for 7,8,9 so I'm just guessing)


Where did be bat in FC?

Hundreds batting around 8 are going to be rare. You need partnerships. Its a lot to ask of the tail. And there is every chance that when you do see one, it wont be that noteworthy. When you have two bowlers occupying the crease for hours, there is likely some serious downhill skiing on the go at a time runs arent really needed.

Not outs don't inflate averages. Especially so for Pollock. Nearly 1/3 of his innings are single digit scores, averaging 5. But if he reaches double digits he averages over 50. Not out innings obliterate his average by denying him the chance to cash in after he has got through the initial risk.

Not sure where he batted in FC. It was weak enough that the answer is wherever he wanted. I vaguely recall a statement of his fairly near the start of his career saying that he had decided to be a bowling allrounder, not a proper one, so i guess he wanted to bat with the taila

 

[Bolo]

If a player played only one match, his career span is 5/365 assuming the test was played for 5 days.
So his effective longevity becomes (1/1)x(5/365) = 0.01, which is not even close to Kallis(17.07)

I'm referring to the %, not the years. If kallis had gone 100 (175), he would rank way, way lower than sobers despite playing more games the divide both by 200 seems to work though

 

[Logan]

How many of the great all rounders could win matches with both batting and bowling? Let us see how some of them did in their secondary speciality.

1. Sobers took just 6 five wicket hauls in 93 Test matches.

2. Kallis took just 5 five wicket hauls in 166 Test matches.

3. Imran Khan scored 6 centuries in 88 Test matches. He scored just 2 centuries in his first 60 Test matches.

4. Richard Hadlee scored 2 centuries in 86 Test matches.

5. Kapil Dev scored 8 centuries in 131 Test matches.

6. Shaun Pollock scored 2 centuries in 102 Test matches.

7. Botham scored 14 centuries in 102 Test matches.



As far as I am interested, only Botham seems like a genuine match winner with his secondary speciality. The rest seem like they can contribute with their secondary speciality but not genuine match winners.

 

[mr_mister]

Aubrey Faulkner took 4 fivefers and scored 4 tons in only 25 tests. Extrapolated out to a 100 test career thats similar to Botham level output. Couple more centuries but 9 less fivefers.


Man imagine if Botham stayed serviceable instead of horrid for the back end of his career. Would be so clearly the number 1.

Went from a 10/10 player to a 3/10 player coasting on reputation

 

[mr_mister]

Also, is Neil Johnson the only player of note to open both the batting and bowling regularly in international cricket?

He took the new ball in 29 of his 48 ODIs and opened the batting in 40 of them. In tests he was more of a middle order bat for whatever reason. Would have been interesting to see how this guy's career played out.

 

[smash84]

Aubrey Faulkner took 4 fivefers and scored 4 tons in only 25 tests. Extrapolated out to a 100 test career thats similar to Botham level output. Couple more centuries but 9 less fivefers.


Man imagine if Botham stayed serviceable instead of horrid for the back end of his career. Would be so clearly the number 1.

Went from a 10/10 player to a 3/10 player coasting on reputation

How was he a 10/10 player? That's stretching it. You can say he was maybe a 9/10 player until he met the WI.

Incidentally a peak Botham in 1982 got outplayed by Imran in the Pakistan England series that year.

Let's not overdo his greatness.

Perhaps it might be a good to check how his battles fared with other great all rounder of the 80s too.