Top Five Cricketers from each country

[aussie tragic]

What gulf are you talking about ?
Batting

Kapil : 5248 runs @ 31.05
Botham : 5200 runs @ 33.54

Bowling

Kapil : 434 wickets @ 29.64
Botham : 383 wickets @ 28.40

Botham a bit better in that stats and the better batsman. However, if he ever was to take those 50 wickets which separate him and Kapil, there is a definite possibility that his bowling average would have ended up worse than Dev. Botham played very few tests in his 30s there by reducing the dent on his record following a significant decline.

Kapil was significantly superior to Botham against WI which many conveniently ignore.

On most days I would prefer Botham over Kapil but it is very close.

Lol, I'm now cured of ever letting stats get in the way of selecting the best players. Botham was so far ahead of the rest in the 1980's and yet now he's now barely ahead of Kapil because someone looked up some stats

 

[h_hurricane]

Lol, I'm now cured of ever letting stats get in the way of selecting the best players. Botham was so far ahead of the rest in the 1980's and yet now he's now barely ahead of Kapil because someone looked up some stats

Lol, and you assume I haven't watched them play.

 

[h_hurricane]

How do we rate the worth an allrounder ? There are multiple factors like bowling average,batting average,runs per match, wickets per match,longevity etc.

If one would narrow the criteria to the below 3 (A+B+C), the rating would look like this for some of the greatest allrounders in history.

A- Batting average/bowling average

B- (No. of wickets per match * No. of runs per match)/100

C- no. of test matches played/500

1.Garry Sobers - 4.07
2.Imran Khan - 3.61
3.Jacques Kallis - 3.44
4.Keith Miller - 3.38
5.Ian Botham - 3.30
6.Richard Hadlee - 3.21
7.Chris Cairns - 3.15
8.Shaun Pollock - 2.98
9.Kapil Dev - 2.61

Garry Sobers reinforces my belief as the greatest allrounder of all time.

Chris Cairns is massively under-rated. But then he is no Aussie or English. Same goes for Shaun Pollock.

I am aghast at my own childhood hero and favorite cricketer coming last in this exercise.Can't do much about it though.May be longevity is under estimated in this analysis.

I have not considered minnow bashing or performance against the best team of the era. This would bring down the "gulf" between Botham and Kapil.

 

[smash84]

Lol, I'm now cured of ever letting stats get in the way of selecting the best players. Botham was so far ahead of the rest in the 1980's and yet now he's now barely ahead of Kapil because someone looked up some stats

So far ahead of the rest in the 80s? What are you smoking? In the 80s both hadlee and Imran were considered better bowlers than botham. Botham was considered a better bat. Just because botham kicked Aussie butt didn't automatically make him the greatest. He did **** all against the WI, which were far and away the best team of the era. So yeah, let's not make him out to be something that he was not.

 

[bagapath]

Kapil Last 3 years

19 tests 623 runs at 32.78
49 wickets at 28.32

these numbers mean nothing. about 35 runs and 2 wickets per test for 3 years. I remember this phase when he faded away. it was worse than botham's last phase. beefy's last few years looked like a former beauty queen taking up prostitution for a living and embarrassing herself in railway stations and narrow alleys. dramatic and sad. Kapil's was a beauty queen developing arthritis and fighting diabetes. it was just reality and inevitable.

Kapil was pretty much excess baggage that had to be carried towards a world record. and then off loaded quickly.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

1980-89

Kapil 80 tests
3353 runs at 30.76
272 wkts at 29.54

Botham 75 tests
4051 runs at 33.75
258 wkts at 32.39

Imran 54 tests
2430 runs at 44.18
256 wkts at 19.12

Hadlee 53
2040 runs at 30.90
289 wkts at 19.28

Statistically Botham finishes at 4th position , I think .

 

[smash84]

these numbers mean nothing. about 35 runs and 2 wickets per test for 3 years. I remember this phase when he faded away. it was worse than botham's last phase. beefy's last few years looked like a former beauty queen taking up prostitution for a living and embarrassing herself in railway stations and narrow alleys. dramatic and sad. Kapil's was a beauty queen developing arthritis and fighting diabetes. it was just reality and inevitable.

Kapil was pretty much excess baggage that had to be carried towards a world record. and then off loaded quickly.

Lol.

I do miss your writing style on the forum. Hard to beat.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

these numbers mean nothing. about 35 runs and 2 wickets per test for 3 years. I remember this phase when he faded away. it was worse than botham's last phase. beefy's last few years looked like a former beauty queen taking up prostitution for a living and embarrassing herself in railway stations and narrow alleys. dramatic and sad. Kapil's was a beauty queen developing arthritis and fighting diabetes. it was just reality and inevitable.

Kapil was pretty much excess baggage that had to be carried towards a world record. and then off loaded quickly.

Ok , but this came after playing 14 years of quality cricket. What about Botham's last phase ?

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Kapil last 3 yrs
19 tests 623 runs at 32.78
49 wkts at 28.32

Botham last 3 yrs
8 tests 143 runs at 14.3
10 wkts at 48.6

Obviously Botham's last phase was better , because he is the only player with 27 X 5 and 14 X 100 in entire history of the game.

 

[h_hurricane]

these numbers mean nothing. about 35 runs and 2 wickets per test for 3 years. I remember this phase when he faded away. it was worse than botham's last phase. beefy's last few years looked like a former beauty queen taking up prostitution for a living and embarrassing herself in railway stations and narrow alleys. dramatic and sad. Kapil's was a beauty queen developing arthritis and fighting diabetes. it was just reality and inevitable.

Kapil was pretty much excess baggage that had to be carried towards a world record. and then off loaded quickly.

Loved the adjectives used. Kapil was not even close to the excess baggage till his last year though(when he was pretty much bowling only 5-8 overs per innings on those minefields when Kumble,Raju and Chauhan ruled the roost).

Here are his performances in the two toughest trips for India in early 1990s.

1991-92 trip to Australia - Well and truly the only outstanding visiting bowler. 25 wickets in the 5 test series and some good performances with the bat down the order.

1992-93 trip to SA - Highest Indian run scorer in the series along with Sachin (with an ATG innings along the way when India was down at 6 for 27). Him taking on a peak Donald was thrilling stuff. Saw the highlights of this innings back then on DD. It is a pity that it is not available in youtube.

The perception of Kapil being useless in the last 3-4 years comes from his performances in ODIs where he was **** after 1992 world cup. Did very well in the one match that mattered though in this period (Hero Cup final).

 

[Bolo]

Speaking of Botham's peak, in his first 25 tests he had 1336 runs @ 40.48 and 139 wkts @ 18.52.

Has anyone else even come close to having a batting average more than double his bowling average?

Imran 25 test slice (81-86) for comparison

1034 runs at 44.95
143 wickets at 14.24

Scores 300 fewer runs despite averaging more. But the difference between his bowling average and Botham's more than covers the and means Imran saves nearly 10 runs per test plus has the extra 4 wickets plus whatever value his not outs count for.

 

[Burgey]

Personally I think Shakib would have easily reached 10 centuries and 20 five fers if Bangladesh played tests more frequently. There's a chance he still gets there

Depends who he plays them against and where, surely.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Batting

Botham
Kapil
Imran
Hadlee

Bowling

Hadlee
Imran
Kapil
Botham

Fielding

Kapil / Botham
Botham / Kapil
Hadlee
Imran

As allrounders

Kapil
Botham
Imran
Hadlee

Overall players

Hadlee
Imran
Kapil
Botham

ODis
Kapil
Hadlee
Imran
Botham

 

[Bolo]

How do we rate the worth an allrounder ? There are multiple factors like bowling average,batting average,runs per match, wickets per match,longevity etc.

If one would narrow the criteria to the below 3 (A+B+C), the rating would look like this for some of the greatest allrounders in history.

A- Batting average/bowling average

B- (No. of wickets per match * No. of runs per match)/100

C- no. of test matches played/500

1.Garry Sobers - 4.07
2.Imran Khan - 3.61
3.Jacques Kallis - 3.44
4.Keith Miller - 3.38
5.Ian Botham - 3.30
6.Richard Hadlee - 3.21
7.Chris Cairns - 3.15
8.Shaun Pollock - 2.98
9.Kapil Dev - 2.61

Garry Sobers reinforces my belief as the greatest allrounder of all time.

Chris Cairns is massively under-rated. But then he is no Aussie or English. Same goes for Shaun Pollock.

I am aghast at my own childhood hero and favorite cricketer coming last in this exercise.Can't do much about it though.May be longevity is under estimated in this analysis.

I have not considered minnow bashing or performance against the best team of the era. This would bring down the "gulf" between Botham and Kapil.

I'm not convinced by cairns above dev, but Cairns above pollock means the system is broken. Pollock has double the number of wickets and is a statistical atg bowlers. Cairns is a statistical bowler if we are being generous, bits and pieces player if feeling more critical.

Runs per match kills the calculation-llist is ordered by batting position to a fair extent. Runs per innongs instead would help, although the problem doesn't go away.

 

[mr_mister]

Aubrey Faulkner ranked 4th in my CW ranking exercise for all rounders

When longevity holds any kind of importance he obviously disappears from contention though.

 

[Starfighter]

Runs per match kills the calculation-llist is ordered by batting position to a fair extent. Runs per innongs instead would help, although the problem doesn't go away.

Why not use batting average?

 

[Test_Fan_Only]

Where does Tony Greig fit into the picture?

 

[h_hurricane]

Where does Tony Greig fit into the picture?

2.88. Above Kapil, below Pollock

 

[h_hurricane]

Aubrey Faulkner ranked 4th in my CW ranking exercise for all rounders

When longevity holds any kind of importance he obviously disappears from contention though.

He played ages back though. It is difficult to compare across eras so far away from each other. Probably the case with Miller as well.

 

[h_hurricane]

I'm not convinced by cairns above dev, but Cairns above pollock means the system is broken. Pollock has double the number of wickets and is a statistical atg bowlers. Cairns is a statistical bowler if we are being generous, bits and pieces player if feeling more critical.

Runs per match kills the calculation-llist is ordered by batting position to a fair extent. Runs per innongs instead would help, although the problem doesn't go away.

I am strongly tempted to use Runs per innings instead of Runs per match. Would come back in a while after this. Probably longevity needs a different weightage as well.