Top 10 Batsmen and Bowlers of All Time

[Bahnz]

cbf doing the batsmen

1. Warne
2. Marshall
3. McGrath
4. Wasim
5. Hadlee
6. Imran
7. Ambrose
8. Lillee
9. Barnes
10. Trueman

 

[smash84]

McGrath was a great bowler during an era where great bowlers were rare and during a time when batsmen prospered more than they ever had through a combination of easier batting conditions, improved batting technology and there simply being a glut of excellent batsmen.

Those batsmen tamed many a talented bowler who could have been special, but McGrath kept them in line.

All those factors are outside the control of both Marshall and McGrath, and I'm sure Marshall would have been successful during McGrath's era had he played and may well have beaten McGrath's peers by a similar margin to McGrath, but he didn't play during McGrath's time and the gap between Marshall and his peers wasn't the same as the gap between McGrath and his peers. In an exercise where there are many names worthy of the best ever tag I had to separate the best bowlers with some pretty harsh criteria. Otherwise I'd be here all day and get no where.

I have also been trying to grapple with this issue. McGrath was one of among a pack in the 90s when Wasim, Waqar, Walsh, Ambrose, Pollock, Donald were all doing pretty well. It is only post 2000 when most of these guys were beginning to go out that he really stood out from the pack. So I am not sure how far ahead he really was from the pack for the first half of his career.

 

[Bahnz]

I have also been trying to grapple with this issue. McGrath was one of among a pack in the 90s when Wasim, Waqar, Walsh, Ambrose, Pollock, Donald were all doing pretty well. It is only post 2000 when most of these guys were beginning to go out that he really stood out from the pack. So I am not sure how far ahead he really was from the pack for the first half of his career.

Pollock is a particularly interesting benchmark for McGrath. Similar sorts of bowlers, similar ages and speeds (though McGrath was admittedly quite a bit taller). At the start of 2003, the two also had similarly magnificent records: Pollock with 278 wickets at under 21, and McGrath with 422 wickets at 21.45. However from 2003 onwards, Pollock averaged "only" 27.79 while McGrath continued to average around 22 despite one or two significant injuries in that time.

 

[kyear2]

Batsmen
Bradman
Sobers
Hobbs
Pollock
Headley
Hammond
Sutcliffe
Hutton
Chappell

A few guys who I might swap around on any given day, and there are multiple options that I'd be perfectly happy with in the 10th spot.

McGrath
Marshall
Murali
Warne
Honestly those 4 are the best spin and pace bowlers, and there is pretty much no separating them. If pressed, I'd go for McGrath and Murali, based on bowling alone. The others, in no particular order:
Barnes
Grimmett
O'Reilly
Ambrose
Lillee
Procter
Akram

Again, all interchangeable, and on another day, I might pick any of the other greats to replace Lillee, Procter and Akram.

Agree that Marshall, McGrath, Warne and Murali have separated themselves from the rest of the pack, just better than everyone else. Your list is a bit harch on Lara, Viv and Sachin in your batting ratings especially since Viv was universally seen as better than Chappell during their careers and Lara is seen by many as arguably the second best batsman ever and Sachin's record is beyond reproach and they are both below a batsman who was the no. 2 opener on his own team who scored at a rate in the high 30's.
It is your rankings and your are entitled to your opnions, just seem a bit strange to me.

How do you differentiate between McGrath and Marshall as the best ever?

I'm not the biggest Marshall fan. I loved McGrath. I think when you look at the most consistent bowlers in all conditions, these two do come out on top.

What brought you around?

I have also been trying to grapple with this issue. McGrath was one of among a pack in the 90s when Wasim, Waqar, Walsh, Ambrose, Pollock, Donald were all doing pretty well. It is only post 2000 when most of these guys were beginning to go out that he really stood out from the pack. So I am not sure how far ahead he really was from the pack for the first half of his career.

For one I agree, McGrath didn't separate until the great bowlers retired and honestly the ones that replaced them were not that good.

Don't worry Smali, don't think it will happen again any time soon.

 

[smash84]

.....WAC

 

[Coronis]

Chappell and Sutcliffe are both very underrated in my opinion.

 

[kyear2]

Chappell and Sutcliffe are both very underrated in my opinion.

I agree with regard to Chappell, and he makes my top ten. Just not better than Viv, Lara or Sachin IMHO.

 

[Red]

What brought you around?

I assume you're referring to the fact I'm not Marshall's biggest fan? There's no doubting his consistency to get the job done in most conditions against most people. He and McGrath succeeded in all environments.

I don't necessarily think they're the best, but the ones with the most all round skills.

 

[hendrix]

McGrath was a very good bowler but I see nothing that separates him from the pack if that pack includes Ambrose or Hadlee.

Marshall as a pace bowler, and Murali and Warne as spin bowlers, are fairly unanimously separated from the rest. But I think the rest of the pace bowlers have strengths and weaknesses that make them fairly comparable.

 

[hendrix]

I also find it very interesting comparing the "top 10" to the "all time teams". You wouldn't have Ambrose and McGrath in the same team, for example. And there wouldn't be much point in Murali and Warne together. Imran usually makes it as a 3rd pace bowler, but probably wouldn't make the top 5 bowlers of all time. Wasim Akram, being a left arm swing bowler and reverse swing maestro makes my team because of the variety he brings, but again might not make my top 5 bowlers of all time.

I think you're not losing much between many of the bowlers in the top 10.

 

[smash84]

I also find it very interesting comparing the "top 10" to the "all time teams". You wouldn't have Ambrose and McGrath in the same team, for example. And there wouldn't be much point in Murali and Warne together. Imran usually makes it as a 3rd pace bowler, but probably wouldn't make the top 5 bowlers of all time. Wasim Akram, being a left arm swing bowler and reverse swing maestro makes my team because of the variety he brings, but again might not make my top 5 bowlers of all time.

I think you're not losing much between many of the bowlers in the top 10.

That's what I think too.

 

[Red]

And there wouldn't be much point in Murali and Warne together.

I think you're not losing much between many of the bowlers in the top 10.

Disagree on Warne and Murali. Can see a heap of benefits to having them both in the side.

Agree on the top ten (pace) bowlers. The differences statistically are so marginal between all of them.

 

[kyear2]

An article Ikki and Monk would enjoy.

Dennis Lillee or Malcolm Marshall | Cricistan - The Territory of Pakistan Cricket

 

[hendrix]

An article Ikki and Monk would enjoy.

Dennis Lillee or Malcolm Marshall | Cricistan - The Territory of Pakistan Cricket

can't believe we haven't found a cure for cologne cancer yet

 

[smash84]

lol....I know it was tragic but i couldn't help lol at this

Sadly he died of cologne cancer in 1999

 

[hendrix]

FDA really needs to get their **** together with those volatile perfumes. Expecting some Benson and Hedges style lobbying from LVMH, Hermes, Tom forward and co, but lives are at stake here.

 

[smash84]

carcinogenic perfumes wouldn't be falling under the purview of the FDA or would they?

 

[kingkallis]

McGrath
Marshall
Murali
Warne

Honestly those 4 are the best spin and pace bowlers, and there is pretty much no separating them. If pressed, I'd go for McGrath and Murali, based on bowling alone. The others, in no particular order:

Barnes
Grimmett
O'Reilly
Ambrose
Lillee
Procter
Akram

Again, all interchangeable, and on another day, I might pick any of the other greats to replace Lillee, Procter and Akram.

So its McG and Murali yet Murali couldnt find a place in your ATG XI!

 

[Coronis]

So its McG and Murali yet Murali couldnt find a place in your ATG XI!

Not much between Murali and Warne, the only reason Warne gets in is because of his batting and fielding.

 

[kyear2]

01. Sir Donald Bradman
02. Sir I.V.A. Richards
03. Sir Jack Hobbs
04. Sir Garfield Sobers
05. Sachin Tendulkar
06. Brian Lara
07. George Headley
08. Sir Leonard Hutton
09. Graeme Pollock
10. Greg Chappell

01. Malcolm Marshall
02. Glenn McGrath
03. Shane Warne
04. Muttiah Muralitharan
05. Curtly Ambrose
06. Dennis Lillee
07. Fred Trueman
08. William O'Reilly
09. Michael Holding
10. Imran Khan

Two notes; 1) for the batsmen, for me five through seven are virtually tied, with the other three not far behind at all, they are all so very close and not much in it at all from two to ten. 2) None of the bowlers are knighted, seems to be a batsman bias there.

01. Sir Donald Bradman
02. Sir I.V.A. Richrads
03. Sir Garfield Sobers
04. Sachin Tendulkar
05. Brian Lara
06. Sir Jack Hobbs
07. Sir Leonard Hutton
08. Graeme Pollock
09. Greg Chappell
10. George Headley / Ricky Ponting

01. Malcolm Marshall
02. Glenn McGrath
03. Muttiah Muralitharan
04. Dennis Lillee
05. Shane Warne
06. Curtly Ambrose
07. Dale Steyn
08. Fred Trueman
09. Alan Donald
10. Michael Holding / Richard Hadlee / Imran Khan

Sorry about the cheat, but hard to separate the three for differing reasons and all three deserve to be there.