Time for cricket to split?

[silentstriker]

Maybe it is, but we've had the Pakistan team spitting the dummy out at the Oval, and then, although the Australian team were no better than the Indians this time around, the BCCI and some idiots make it worse by producing scenes like this

and it's bloody annoying.

I honestly can't think of any other nation where a significant amount of people would react to a few decisions not going their way by people going out into the streets and burning stuff.

I don't think its anywhere near a 'significant amount'.

 

[steds]

I would label a significant amount as enough to attract press attention, rather than about 7 ****s doing what 7 ****s do.

 

[Fusion]

You can't think of fans being idiots after things don't go their way? Let me point out some Non-Asian examples:

Michigan State University student riots after losses in 1999 and 2003.

1994 Riots in Vancouver when the Canucks lost.

I can't be bothered to look up more examples, but I assure you they are there. That doesn't justify the actions of the Asian fans, but it does tell you that fans all over the world are capable of being idiots. Also, like Richard mentioned, the vast majority of the Asian fans don't condone that type of behavior.

 

[Langeveldt]

AFAIK I did make a thread about a year ago advocating the very same thing.. Was met by a largely negative response..

Cricket to me, is a gentlemen's game, an even contest between bat and ball, and a bloody good institution and way of life.. And if I have to watch KwaZulu Natal Inland v Boland 2nds to see cricket played in the spirit it should be, then I'd rather that than watch that than a bunch of highly paid prima donnas have a slanging match over a few duff decisions.. Yes it's sad that it's got to this, but thats life I'm afraid

 

[steds]

But your original post basically suggested Asians do that by default, when in reality it's never more than a fraction of the population.

The vast majority of Asians would never really even consider doing that.

I never specified any amount and never suggested that they all do it. I just said "asians", which is what the Pakistan team at the Oval, this Indian team, the BCCI and those idiots who've overreacted are. It happens to be a shorter description than listing them all by name, age and shoe size. Would you prefer me call them small blobs of vaseline as to appear less racist?

 

[steds]

You can't think of fans being idiots after things don't go their way? Let me point out some Non-Asian examples:

Michigan State University student riots after losses in 1999 and 2003.

1994 Riots in Vancouver when the Canucks lost.

I can't be bothered to look up more examples, but I assure you they are there.

Fair enough. I take that back. Was thinking exclusively in Test cricket terms. If say Michael Vaughan, Chris Gayle or Brendan McCullum were given out in the same way as Dravid, I couldn't see there being anywhere near such an extreme reaction.

 

[Richard]

I never specified any amount and never suggested that they all do it. I just said "asians", which is what the Pakistan team at the Oval, this Indian team, the BCCI and those idiots who've overreacted are. It happens to be a shorter description than listing them all by name, age and shoe size. Would you prefer me call them small blobs of vaseline as to appear less racist?

If you say "Asians and their such-and-such" you're leaving it open to be interpreted as "if you're Asian that means you behave this way".

As Dasa said, it's generalisation. It might be easier than listing them all by name, age and shoe-size, but it's far less adviseable. It's not being racist, really, it's just generalisation, putting a massive group into what is really nothing more than a very small one.

 

[andruid]

Heck if they can five a better deal to Associates then they can pull the rug right out from under the ICC's feet otherwise...

 

[Richard]

Fair enough. I take that back. Was thinking exclusively in Test cricket terms. If say Michael Vaughan, Chris Gayle or Brendan McCullum were given out in the same way as Dravid, I couldn't see there being anywhere near such an extreme reaction.

Likewise, I don't really see anything similar if, shall we say, Kumar Sangakkara was given out in that way. Or rather Kumar Sangakkara, Tillakaratne Dilshan, Chamara Silva, Chaminda Vaas and Muttiah Muralitharan, which would be a more apt comparison. Yet Sri Lankans are also Asians.

Is it not more likely that it's just the fact that there's rather a lot of Indians (and Pakistanis), so by chain there's going to be more idiots amongst them? If the cricket-following population of Britain was the size of the cricket-following population of India, I'd be prepared to bet a substantial amount that we'd see scenes of the like were Bell, Vaughan, Pietersen, Ambrose and Hoggard to be given out incorrectly in a vital Test in New Zealand in a couple of months' time, and were England to be cheated of a draw at the very least.

 

[Langeveldt]

Likewise, I don't really see anything similar if, shall we say, Kumar Sangakkara was given out in that way. Or rather Kumar Sangakkara, Tillakaratne Dilshan, Chamara Silva, Chaminda Vaas and Muttiah Muralitharan, which would be a more apt comparison. Yet Sri Lankans are also Asians.

Is it not more likely that it's just the fact that there's rather a lot of Indians (and Pakistanis), so by chain there's going to be more idiots amongst them? If the cricket-following population of Britain was the size of the cricket-following population of India, I'd be prepared to bet a substantial amount that we'd see scenes of the like were Bell, Vaughan, Pietersen, Ambrose and Hoggard to be given out incorrectly in a vital Test in New Zealand in a couple of months' time, and were England to be cheated of a draw at the very least.

Nah, don't think that applies.. Reckon the effigy per person count is far higher in India.. Although, yeah it was a bit of a harsh generalization..

 

[Malleeboy]

I don't think the split will occurr but I think it may play out differently than some of the posts here.

Firstly would the mainly white South African (which is the majority) players follow their board or prefer to play in the CA/ECB block? Remember the Indian block would not have access to Lord's, MCG, SCG nor allow them to play against Aussie's and England.

I think a rebel Indian based team of Aussie would not get any player who thought they still had a chance of getting a real "baggy" green. Look at Andrew Symonds, he could have chosen to play for England and would have probably played for some time but he prefered the small chance of a "baggy green" to a long career in a blue one. They would get fringe players and close to retirment players. It would mean life ban from Aussie team as well as ban on playing state cricket.

I think you'd see England, Australia, NZ, a composite rebel Southern African team, and possibly the Windies. (In other words the majority of the historic teams of cricket.) Ireland, Scotland, Netherlands and Canada would get a lot of support to assist in getting them up to level and probably find a way through family links to get excess Aussie players into their teams. They surely couldn't be much worse then Zimmers and Bangers now!

 

[deira]

split is not a good idea. However ICC really needs a shakeup.

 

[Richard]

Nah, don't think that applies.. Reckon the effigy per person count is far higher in India.. Although, yeah it was a bit of a harsh generalization..

And TBH I reckon the effigy per person count would go up as the effigy count went up. Peer pressure is a surprisingly influential thing sometimes.

 

[Langeveldt]

And TBH I reckon the effigy per person count would go up as the effigy count went up. Peer pressure is a surprisingly influential thing sometimes.

I think you are over-analysing

 

[Richard]

I'm an analytical person.

TBH, there's no way of knowing for sure. But I don't like the "oh, those Asian idiots and their effigy-burning, no, no, would never have any of that under equal circumstances in our civilised Western spots", which I know people aren't actually saying, of course, but sometimes people come far closer to implying it than they should.

 

[Langeveldt]

I'm an analytical person.

TBH, there's no way of knowing for sure. But I don't like the "oh, those Asian idiots and their effigy-burning, no, no, would never have any of that under equal circumstances in our civilised Western spots", which I know people aren't actually saying, of course, but sometimes people come far closer to implying it than they should.

Well lets say that England lose far more per head than most countries.. How many times does Flintoff's house get egged or torched, a la Inzamam ul Haq/Wasim Akram when things go sour for Pakistan?

 

[Richard]

As I said - give me a comparison between the number of people who follow cricket in Pakistan, and those that follow it over here.

Then we'll think about how much that means.

 

[Malleeboy]

Maybe Australia is a better comparision than England! In Australia cricket is the main summer sport and hugely followed. Per head of population Cricket support levels would match the subcontinent. Have you ever seen an Aussie burning an effige of our players. Sure we haven't had much cause to lately, but I can remember the Hughes/Border days. No one burnt pictures of Border when we kept getting whipped by the Windies, Hughes broke into tears at his treatment but he didn't have his house torched. Australia had spent nearly crickets entire history up to that point as either 1 or 2 side and to suddenly find ourselves way down the list was humiliating None of the subcontinent teams have spent decades at the top only to find themselves suddenly as the whipping boys of world cricket. How did Australia react, we setup the academy and we made the slow climb back up to world dominance. Maybe less blaming of players and officials and more emphasis on developing the best team and players may be a better option.

 

[Days of Grace]

It would be a disaster for the development of the global game, but if it happened, you'd be foolish not to side with the Indian block, money talks...

 

[Days of Grace]

Maybe Australia is a better comparision than England! In Australia cricket is the main summer sport and hugely followed. Per head of population Cricket support levels would match the subcontinent. Have you ever seen an Aussie burning an effige of our players. Sure we haven't had much cause to lately, but I can remember the Hughes/Border days. No one burnt pictures of Border when we kept getting whipped by the Windies, Hughes broke into tears at his treatment but he didn't have his house torched. Australia had spent nearly crickets entire history up to that point as either 1 or 2 side and to suddenly find ourselves way down the list was humiliating None of the subcontinent teams have spent decades at the top only to find themselves suddenly as the whipping boys of world cricket. How did Australia react, we setup the academy and we made the slow climb back up to world dominance. Maybe less blaming of players and officials and more emphasis on developing the best team and players may be a better option.

Okay, I hate to bring race/ethnicity into this, but maybe Indians/Pakistanis are just more passionate/prone to go overboard with their passion?? Socio/economic/political conditions make a difference as well. I assume that the effigy burners are usually lower class with not much else in their lives to get passionate about except for their cricket team?