This is why Australia will lose the Ashes

[pup11]

Likewise. Hauritz got outbowled by Ollie Rayner and Will Beer, neither of whom can currently find a regular spot in the Sussex first team ffs.

The 4 quicks you've mentioned are a pretty potent pace attack and if twirly stuff is required then it can just as well come from Clarke, North and Katich as Hauritz.

I think that also indicates to some extent, that how well the Aussies have been playing spin off-late.

 

[social]

Cheap shot, and wide of the mark.

You could equally say "England are a very strong batting lineup - no batting line-up would average 52.1 runs per wicket since the start of the year (including said 51 all out) unless that's the case."

For the record, here are England's Test scores in addition to the infamous 51:

600/6d, 569/6d, 566/9d, 546/6d, 377, 318, 279/2d, 237/6d, 221/8d, 32/0, 7/0

To me, that suggests that the 51 was the exception rather than the rule.

I'm not suggesting we won't get murdered by the Australians (although their inability to bowl my county side's fringe players out doesn't exactly send shivers of panic down my spine) but I just think that basing your critique of a batting line-up on the basis of one innings is a little unreliable.

When Eng played that first test, they were basically in the midst of a downward spiral that resulted in them sitting pretty close to the bottom of the test rankings, i.e. they weren't very good at all

Since that time, they have played a number of matches.

For the balance of the series in WI, Eng played on pitches that could best be decribed as bowlers' graveyards and so any performances there have to be taken with a grain of salt.

The 2 teams then moved onto Eng and the WI bowling/fielding performances in favourable conditions were so bad that they had to be seen to be believed.

Whilst there is little doubt that the attitude/confidence of the English team has improved markedly since the nadir of that 51 (and that's half the battle!), IMO the jury is still well and truly out on a number of their batsmen

In fact, until proven otherwise, the only English batsmen that I have real confidence in (i.e. potential to average 50) are KP and Prior.

Strauss and Cook - will get a real test from Johnson (who is excellent against left-handers) and both still exhibit the technical flaws that have plagued them for some time

Bopara - does not look like a 3 to me as he doesnt cover his off stump

Collingwood - very hit and miss these days

Flintoff - will need a major renaissance as he looks to have completely lost it with his batting

Having said that, it should be a very competitive series as the Eng have a strong bowling attack and the Oz batsmen have hardly been covering themselves with glory either

 

[Howsie]

Johnson, Lee, Clark and Siddle would have to be the attack wouldn't it?

I'm pretty sure England will struggle against that attack.

 

[Uppercut]

What do you expect? It's obviously going to be brought up...it happened and it's funny.

Yeah, but it's useless as evidence of England being a bad batting side because it's their only batting failure since last summer. In eight matches, they failed with the bat once. It's a bit like (in fact, it's exactly like) me using the 2005 Ashes as evidence that Australia are crap at playing against England.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Yeah, but it's useless as evidence of England being a bad batting side because it's their only batting failure since last summer. In eight matches, they failed with the bat once. It's a bit like (in fact, it's exactly like) me using the 2005 Ashes as evidence that Australia are crap at playing against England.

Yeah, and that's fair enough. But it wasn't just a failure, it was a monumental failure and I think the fact it was against the WI made it worse in the eyes of people from other countries. Their only failure came against a team they should be expected to score heavily against. It mightn't be fair, and I'm sure anyone in test cricket can put it together on their day and do what the Windies did to England against anyone. The fact is though, it hasn't happened to anyone else except England. And Australians enjoy that being the case

Personally, I don't think it really reflects on how the English line up will perform this summer.

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah, and that's fair enough. But it wasn't just a failure, it was a monumental failure and I think the fact it was against the WI made it worse in the eyes of people from other countries. Their only failure came against a team they should be expected to score heavily against. It mightn't be fair, and I'm sure anyone in test cricket can put it together on their day and do what the Windies did to England against anyone. The fact is though, it hasn't happened to anyone else except England. And Australians enjoy that being the case

Personally, I don't think it really reflects on how the English line up will perform this summer.

Pretty much agree with all of that. Getting rolled for 52 was hilarious and can be used to mock England for years to come. But not for genuinely trying to judge the side's quality.

 

[zaremba]

When Eng played that first test, they were basically in the midst of a downward spiral that resulted in them sitting pretty close to the bottom of the test rankings, i.e. they weren't very good at all

Since that time, they have played a number of matches.

For the balance of the series in WI, Eng played on pitches that could best be decribed as bowlers' graveyards and so any performances there have to be taken with a grain of salt.

The 2 teams then moved onto Eng and the WI bowling/fielding performances in favourable conditions were so bad that they had to be seen to be believed.

Whilst there is little doubt that the attitude/confidence of the English team has improved markedly since the nadir of that 51 (and that's half the battle!), IMO the jury is still well and truly out on a number of their batsmen

In fact, until proven otherwise, the only English batsmen that I have real confidence in (i.e. potential to average 50) are KP and Prior.

Strauss and Cook - will get a real test from Johnson (who is excellent against left-handers) and both still exhibit the technical flaws that have plagued them for some time

Bopara - does not look like a 3 to me as he doesnt cover his off stump

Collingwood - very hit and miss these days

Flintoff - will need a major renaissance as he looks to have completely lost it with his batting

Having said that, it should be a very competitive series as the Eng have a strong bowling attack and the Oz batsmen have hardly been covering themselves with glory either

Pretty happy to agree with all of this, really.

 

[Nate]

Really stoked that Hilfenhaus is on the outer atm. No doubt that he's a great guy, but he just isn't one of Australia's four best bowlers imo.

 

[pup11]

Pretty much agree with all of that. Getting rolled for 52 was hilarious and can be used to mock England for years to come. But not for genuinely trying to judge the side's quality.

I agree that using that one innings as an example, to suggest that the English batting line-up isn't good enough isn't logical, they have been piling up some pretty good totals recently, so one can't write off the English batting so easily.

The only problem that I can see with English batting line-up is, that they don't seem to have the kind of batting depth Australia has shown to have, England play with only 6 proper batsman (including Prior), and thereafter they depend on all-rounders like Flintoff, Broad and Swann.

The problem with that sort of a batting line-up is, that if one or two blokes from the top order don't do well for England, then there is every chance of them getting bowled out cheaply, but I guess that's the risk they are willing to take, in order to strengthen their bowling.

 

[social]

Oz will definitely win the Ashes if Flintoff keeps missing the team bus

Flintoff rapped for missing bus to Ypres | England Cricket News | Cricinfo.com

With his record, if he was Australian, he'd already be on the plane home and probably have a psychiatrist in the seat next to him

 

[tooextracool]

I agree that using that one innings as an example, to suggest that the English batting line-up isn't good enough isn't logical, they have been piling up some pretty good totals recently, so one can't write off the English batting so easily.

The England batting has been malfunctioning for quite a while now. Dreadful in NZ, dreadful at home during the summer against NZ and SA, continuing the trend in the WI until they played on some very flat wickets where both you and I could have batted without danger. The WI team that showed up in England was very very poor so Im not even going to attempt to rate their batting performances against this side.

 

[Faisal1985]

It will be interesting to see the OZs lose the Ashes........at least for a change.

 

[Golaxi]

lol mcdonalds is playing :-p. australia sold out :-p

 

[zaremba]

The England batting has been malfunctioning for quite a while now. Dreadful in NZ, dreadful at home during the summer against NZ and SA, continuing the trend in the WI until they played on some very flat wickets where both you and I could have batted without danger. The WI team that showed up in England was very very poor so Im not even going to attempt to rate their batting performances against this side.

I'd say that averaging 52 runs per wicket is pretty easy to rate as being pretty good, even though the pitches and opposition were both flat.

 

[tooextracool]

I'd say that averaging 52 runs per wicket is pretty easy to rate as being pretty good, even though the pitches and opposition were both flat.

Is this during the series at home against the WI?

Personally, our batting looks very frail. Perhaps only in India could we claim that our batting performed somewhat to a requisite extent, having resulted in our downfall in many of the series before. With the exception of Pietersen, there is no star player in this batting side. I hold out hope for Bopara in that he might turn out to be someone who can consistently score runs but I dont see the likes of Strauss, Collingwood and Cook being anything other than middling batters in the short term.

 

[pietersenrocks]

SA were hammered in the first 2 tests (let's not forget that they both should've been innings victories if not for ridiculously conservative captaincy) because Oz has the best pace bowling attack in the world and Macdonald was part of that

He's as ridiculously underrated as is Eng's spin bowling advantage overrated

Seriously, what do you think Johnson, Siddle & co will do to a lineup that the WI dismissed for 50 when NONE of the WI bowlers would make the Oz squad?

What do you think would utter wastes like Mcdonald do to a lineup that scored 500+ runs in 3 consecutives test matches in the West Indies???

 

[Nate]

Haha, 'utter wastes'? Such as, 'pietersenrocks is an utter waste of a poster'?

McDonald is not one of Australia's best four bowlers, but in his Test Career so far, he has not done much wrong.

 

[Noble One]

Really don't understand the McDonald hate from some members of this forum.

Performed an admirable job for Australia in South Africa, and at home in Sydney. Rarely leaks runs, takes the occasional crucial wicket. Is not concerned about pace or big swing, just bowling wicket to wicket and keeping the pressure on the batsman.

Has been one of the most consistent bowlers for four/five years in the toughest first class competition in the world, and holds the first change bowling slot in the strongest domestic bowling lineup in the country.

Who cares if he doesn't have the pace of Akhtar, the movement of Sharma or the face of Watson. He is a solid, reliable bowler who can perform a job. The lack of respect McDonald receives is why he averages mid to high 20’s in first class cricket and just over 30 at Test level.

 

[zaremba]

Is this during the series at home against the WI?

Since 1.1.09 - ie both the home and away series v the WI and including the 51ao.
I don't pretend we're a great team but we have a decent batting line-up. Not sure if 5 specialist batsmen (plus Prior) is enough though, I'd rather see 6 batsmen plus Prior at 7, and Flintoff at 8.

 

[Uppercut]

Since 1.1.09 - ie both the home and away series v the WI and including the 51ao.
I don't pretend we're a great team but we have a decent batting line-up. Not sure if 5 specialist batsmen (plus Prior) is enough though, I'd rather see 6 batsmen plus Prior at 7, and Flintoff at 8.

The word on the street is that Samit Patel was pencilled in for the number 6 spot in the run-up to the West Indies series (bringing his useful tweaking with him) in place of Bresnan. But he was too fat. I've said plenty of times the best balance for the side IMO is six batsmen including Patel (much like the Aussies with North) then Flintoff at 7 and Foster at 8. Broad, Swanny and Anderson make up a ridiculously strong tail and there are still four and a half bowlers.

I'm pretty happy with the way the selecting's been going lately though. The only way they could seriously balls it up is by picking Panesar at Cardiff.