This is why Australia will lose the Ashes

[Richard]

Bradman would disagree. Your comment is suggestive there's no such thing as a great innings, that when a player makes a large score it is always the fault of the bowling, or the bowling is substandard.

That just isn't so, with respect.

A great innings is one which repels great bowling. Outstanding bowling simply cannot be got on top of, as such - unless you're Bradman, or a Viv Richards playing a ten-times-or-so-in-a-lifetime innings, or someone else playing a once-in-several-lifetimes innings (eg Nathan Astle at Christchurch 2001/02).

If the bowler is good enough (and the best usually are) then he always controls the game. Every now and then, truly outstanding batting can play through that. But you cannot just hit outstanding bowling off itself - if the bowler keeps his head and his body shape, he'll get you 999 times out of 1000, maybe more, playing that way.

 

[Richard]

If Paul Collingwood is as good a bowler as Andrew McDonald, I'll buy a plane ticket to England and donate it to the estate of Richard Pratt.

Who's he then?

 

[vic_orthdox]

Who's he then?

Formerly Australia's richest man, who recently died.

Just saying that I'll completely waste it by donating it to a family who doesn't need money.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Lee's performances compared to McDonald? McDonald played 3 mangy tests and he's a 'better performer' than Lee. Listen to yourself man. And isn't McDonald, like, 30? He's not too far off Lee in age as well.

You need to read properly. RECENT performances. I'm not in love with Brett and I don't fantasise about him in swimmers...so call me crazy, but McDonald's recent performances have been better than Lee's. As everyone here has said, IF Lee comes out and bowls well then he should be in the team. He shouldn't be in the team just because his name's Brett Lee though.

McDonald will also have to prove himself in the conditions.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Exactly. Thanks for that. Therefore that's not good enough reason for McDonald to be included in the team. Thank you.

McDonald performs his role well...and I'm pretty sure he'd look shocking in swimmers

 

[andruid]

Just because you say it over and over doesn't mean people are going to agree with it.

First Chance average

 

[Jakester1288]

Lee's performances compared to McDonald? McDonald played 3 mangy tests and he's a 'better performer' than Lee. Listen to yourself man. And isn't McDonald, like, 30? He's not too far off Lee in age as well.

McDonald
28 years 20 days

Lee
32 years 229 days

Pretty big difference. McDonald has up to 10 years left. Lee, with his injuries and the sort of bowler he is, I can't see him lasting another 4 years. However, could last another 6 but I don't see that happening.

 

[inbox24]

Let's be open about this guys. McDonald is not international quality. You don't pick players who are not international quality if you have other players who are of international quality. Doesn't matter how old he is, doesn't matter how much imaginary 'balance' he adds to the team, doesn't matter how much he bribes the selectors.

Ok, maybe the last one works.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Let's be open about this guys. McDonald is not international quality. You don't pick players who are not international quality if you have other players who are of international quality. Doesn't matter how old he is, doesn't matter how much imaginary 'balance' he adds to the team, doesn't matter how much he bribes the selectors.

Ok, maybe the last one works.

Kallis, Amla and De Villiers must be pretty poor then.

McDonald will never be a great in test cricket, that much is for certain. He's not poor though just because you don't like watching him. I think most of the people defending him have said they wouldn't play him if others are bowling well and should be selected in front of him.

 

[Pup Clarke]

But Australia (and others) are not sure if Lee is now International quality. I know that it wasn't that long ago he was producing the goods, but I'm not sure an Ashes series (where for the most part he's struggled in) will reinstate him, to play tests for further years.

 

[inbox24]

These two are not mutually exclusive. Saying McDonald is bad doesn't mean Lee is going good at the moment either. Looks to me as if he needs some time at FC level, and definitely should not be playing the Ashes. This will make the bowling selections much easier with only:

Johnson
Siddle
Clark
Hilfenhaus
Hauritz

So in theory there should only be one place that is still in doubt, whether to play the spinner or to use the fourth quickie.

 

[Jakester1288]

These two are not mutually exclusive. Saying McDonald is bad doesn't mean Lee is going good at the moment either. Looks to me as if he needs some time at FC level, and definitely should not be playing the Ashes. This will make the bowling selections much easier with only:

Johnson
Siddle
Clark
Hilfenhaus
Hauritz

So in theory there should only be one place that is still in doubt, whether to play the spinner or to use the fourth quickie.

What if Lee takes, say, 7/110 over the 2 innings, or 4/60 in this innings, if it is the only one where he can bowl/bowls?

 

[inbox24]

Well the good thing is, bowling like that he won't. If it was Clark out of form like that (well we don't really know if he is or isn't) then at least he'd still be on the whole keeping the run rate down. If Lee turns sour, he really bowls donkeys.

 

[pup11]

I don't know why people are comparing Lee and McDonald on the bowling front, Lee is an attacking bowler, who runs and tries to get people out, whereas McDonald is a bloke who tries to keep a lid on things, and any wickets he gets while doing that is pretty much a bonus, so really it makes no sense to replace Lee in favour of McDonald.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I don't know why people are comparing Lee and McDonald on the bowling front, Lee is an attacking bowler, who runs and tries to get people out, whereas McDonald is a bloke who tries to keep a lid on things, and any wickets he gets while doing that is pretty much a bonus, so really it makes no sense to replace Lee in favour of McDonald.

I'm not sure anyone is comparing the job they do. Just saying that if Lee was out of form and McDonald wasn't then he'd be a possible option in combination with others who would take over and do Lee's job. McDonald's obviously not going to come in and bowl 150kph outswingers.

 

[scorpiogal]

McDonald will also have to prove himself in the conditions.

Perfect. Glad you admitted that rather than just slap us in the face with "McDonald is better than Lee" crap.

 

[social]

Perfect. Glad you admitted that rather than just slap us in the face with "McDonald is better than Lee" crap.

Boring

You've drawn that inference from people commenting that they want to see Lee perform before he gets selected

Reality is that he's competing with Clake, Hilfenhaus, McDonald, Haurritz and Watson

 

[Son Of Coco]

Perfect. Glad you admitted that rather than just slap us in the face with "McDonald is better than Lee" crap.

Think I admitted it all along, but saying McDonald had performed better than Lee recently blinded you a bit I think. Don't know how many times I have to say if Lee was in good form I'd have him there and not have McDonald. Think it was mentioned at least three pages back. You can also reference Social's comment above. This is one of the most irrational discussions I've been involved in.

 

[scorpiogal]

Boring

You've drawn that inference from people commenting that they want to see Lee perform before he gets selected

Reality is that he's competing with Clake, Hilfenhaus, McDonald, Haurritz and Watson

Seems that you missed the boat on what this discussion was based on. I advise you to go back a few pages and have a read.

 

[tooextracool]

No, he wouldn't. McDonald, at the moment, in the international arena, has been performing better than Lee.

That doesnt really mean much. Lee has been rubbish, and McDonald has been slightly less rubbish. This is test match cricket, you need 20 wickets to win a game and as far as Im concerned, I disagree with the selectors logic in picking Hauritz and McDonald because both of them are not capable of taking test match wickets. Their role is to keep things tight which quite frankly is a very negative option and is not what test cricket is about.