The unapologetic Lyon Bandwagon Thread - Not for TJB

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah... honest posting does make me feel better.

So that's why they don't just call you bharani

I'm hoping Ashwin does well in RSA next year. The pitches there generally tend to have something for spinners, just hope we can hang in matches long enough to bring him into the game.

India are gonna be huge next decade or so IMO. I'm jumping on board now.

(I know they've played pretty much exclusively at home for the last 2 years but they still look strong af)

 

[honestbharani]

I'm hoping Ashwin does well in RSA next year. The pitches there generally tend to have something for spinners, just hope we can hang in matches long enough to bring him into the game.

Yeah there are definitely wickets in RSA, Eng and even in Aus where he can be in the game. Its more of a Federer Vs Nadal situation IMO, where the initial few performances seem to have scarred him mentally and he is trying too hard. Hopefully he has the resurgence just like the GOAT did recently and does better in our away tours next year. He should start aiming to do what Lyon or Moeen try tbh. Which is to be economical and keep an end going for the seamers to attack from the other end and pick up a 2 or 3-fer in the process. The problem often seems to be that he is trying too hard to get folks out than do the boring job. That is how finger spinners succeed in those conditions, by bowling dry and hoping the quality of the seamers in their side ensures batsmen take risks against the finger spinner.

 

[Burgey]

Nah, they'll find away to make their promising seam bowlers become tragically bad, which will basically stymie them outside the SC and WI (not that any cricket played outside the SC counts, of course). The wheel is forever.

 

[honestbharani]

Lol yeah... I dont expect Umesh or Shami to magically be better next year when we start touring but I do expect Ash to have more conservative expectations of his role to begin with and hopefully do a better job of it.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Nah, they'll find away to make their promising seam bowlers become tragically bad, which will basically stymie them outside the SC and WI (not that any cricket played outside the SC counts, of course). The wheel is forever.

But they've got the batsmen to be making big scores anywhere. Unless they fall in a heap when they come across some English swing or a bouncy Aussie/SA quicks but only time will tell.

Yadav troubled the Aus batsman in Indian conditions. He should be more than competitive overseas.

 

[honestbharani]

Problem is his 2 4 balls every over can't be covered by the spinners like it happens at home. Its never an issue about talent or ability to bowl balls that will create problems for the home batsmen with our pace attack, its the consistency. The release ball happens every over and that is just such a big no-no when you know the spinner/(s) are not gonna be able to take a heap and help cover that up.

 

[burr]

An English commentator (I think it was Daniel Norcross but I'm happy to stand corrected) compared Lyon to a man how 'hangs around a bus stop and asks for change' the other day on BBC comms. A little harsh but amusing nonetheless.

 

[Victor Ian]

He IS that man, and so many other characters that you would normally laugh at. That is why he is so good.

Now he has a 10fer to go on his resume. Rowr for Garry!

 

[Arachnodouche]

I'm hoping Ashwin does well in RSA next year. The pitches there generally tend to have something for spinners, just hope we can hang in matches long enough to bring him into the game.

Ashwin will be crap outside the SC. If we had any sense, we'd be investing heavily in Kuldeep on tour. That kid will go places.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

A better version of Moeen, not the best spinner the side have ever had but a decent one, actually better than decent and does a good job. Trouble is they will always remind people of the reason they are constantly questioned because of that 4th innings on a turning pitch when they bowl like a drain when they are expected to win the match which they fail to do. Guess that is what seperates the great spinners from the average/good ones which means Lyon is a level below the top tier.

 

[TheJediBrah]

He'll probably get like 1000 Test wickets because you just know Lyon will play until he's like 50 because he literally has nothing else going on in life

 

[cnerd123]

Ashwin will be crap outside the SC. If we had any sense, we'd be investing heavily in Kuldeep on tour. That kid will go places.

Yea i've been a big Ashwin fan for ages, but it's clear from what we've seen so far that he doesn't have the ability to adapt the way Lyon has adapted to the SC.

He definitely has the tools I still believe, but something is preventing him from executing them. It might be a lack of confidence in those tools, or not having enough control when trying to use them, or just stubbornness and refusal to change things up. Could also be injury and bad form coinciding with his tours overseas.

Either way, he hasn't bowled as well outside the SC as Lyon has inside.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Can't wait for the discussion over the worst spinner to reach 300 test wickets once he gets there.

 

[stephen]

Can't wait for the discussion over the worst spinner to reach 300 test wickets once he gets there.

Bhajji is already there.

 

[Victor Ian]

Yea i've been a big Ashwin fan for ages, but it's clear from what we've seen so far that he doesn't have the ability to adapt the way Lyon has adapted to the SC.

He definitely has the tools I still believe, but something is preventing him from executing them. It might be a lack of confidence in those tools, or not having enough control when trying to use them, or just stubbornness and refusal to change things up. Could also be injury and bad form coinciding with his tours overseas.

Either way, he hasn't bowled as well outside the SC as Lyon has inside.

It must be much easier to adapt your game for a game that will naturally be conducive to spin rather than adapt to a game where it is anti spin. Ashwin needs to adapt to adapt to the fact that he is going to suck arse in the anitpodes and there is really nothing he can do about it.

 

[cnerd123]

It must be much easier to adapt your game for a game that will naturally be conducive to spin rather than adapt to a game where it is anti spin. Ashwin needs to adapt to adapt to the fact that he is going to suck arse in the anitpodes and there is really nothing he can do about it.

Actually it is probably that. Spinners are the fast men of India. They get the new ball, all the wickets, all the women. To put aside the massive ego that comes with that and settle in a second-fiddle role to your traditionally inferior counterparts must be so hard. Maybe Ashwin can't accept that he needs to be nothing more but a support bowler who ends the day with 2/70 in 30 overs who only gets maybe 1 game a series where he can actually bowl a side out.

Whereas Lyon...well Lyon has no ego. To go from the beta male support bowler/drinks carrier to rockstar in the spotlight must have motivated him hugely. That's enough to drive him to improve his skill significantly.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I'm hoping Ashwin does well in RSA next year. The pitches there generally tend to have something for spinners, just hope we can hang in matches long enough to bring him into the game.

The game was his to win in Joburg 2013 and he was rubbish. I dunno, I'm not very hopeful. As weird as this sounds I think even Jadeja has the potential to be better overseas than Ashwin.

Have a few question marks in the batting lineup too.. Pujara, Rahul, Dhawan have tons to prove away from home.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Yea i've been a big Ashwin fan for ages, but it's clear from what we've seen so far that he doesn't have the ability to adapt the way Lyon has adapted to the SC.

He definitely has the tools I still believe, but something is preventing him from executing them. It might be a lack of confidence in those tools, or not having enough control when trying to use them, or just stubbornness and refusal to change things up. Could also be injury and bad form coinciding with his tours overseas.

Either way, he hasn't bowled as well outside the SC as Lyon has inside.

My observation has been he doesn't put enough body into his delivery, the way Lyon does. Mind, that's body, not revs. In the SC, this gets masked through the nature of the pitches, but outside the SC it becomes a glaring flaw in his game.

 

[cnerd123]

It's something that has creeped into his game a couple of years ago. It wasn't always like that. I remember a few of us on here pointed it out a while ago how he's still spinning it, but isn't putting his body into it as much as he used too.

It's probably some bad habits developed due to the intense schedule he plays on. More niggles and injuries and trying to preserve himself.


That or his ego as I explained above.

 

[Burgey]

Yea i've been a big Ashwin fan for ages, but it's clear from what we've seen so far that he doesn't have the ability to adapt the way Lyon has adapted to the SC.

He definitely has the tools I still believe, but something is preventing him from executing them. It might be a lack of confidence in those tools, or not having enough control when trying to use them, or just stubbornness and refusal to change things up. Could also be injury and bad form coinciding with his tours overseas.

Either way, he hasn't bowled as well outside the SC as Lyon has inside.

I think HB made the point yesterday that a fair bit of it also has to do with support bowling. So the past two tours Lyon has had SOK in India and quicks who have at worst kept it pretty tight and at best have taken poles too. India's quicks haven't really done that consistently away from the SC soa bloke like Ashwin (and Murali for SL when he played in Aus) can be waited on and milked in the knowledge the others can be taken for plenty and aren't really a threat. It's no coincidence India's rise to number one coincided with Zaheer being world class because it gave them consistent wicket taking options and pressure across all conditions.