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The Stokes and Woakes Thread

Furball

Furball

Evil Scotsman
theegyptian said:
They all be results wickets and whilst we probably won't be that much worse than India once we're 2-0 down it's hard to make a comeback. Only real hope is that India haven't exactly played spin well themselves in recent times.

If the wickets are so much in favour of spin (over seam) then it just won't matter that we have good seamers because whilst they might keep india to 300 - we'll be rushed out by Ashwin and whoever for 180. The tactics last winter in UAE were hopeless as well so if it was a close series we are probably not going to win on a tactical note.

Speculating but best case scenario England somehow win on a minefield in the first test with Moeen and some other spinner luckboxing a load of wickets - forcing India to prepare flatter wickets for the rest where England seamers bowl great dry spells and we win 2-1.

Moeen seems to bowl worse the more it spins. And it turning loads means it's a lot easier to pick Rashid.
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India's current batsmen are pretty bad against spin.
 
G

Groundking

International Debutant
Furball said:
India's current batsmen are pretty bad against spin.
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But we have crap spin, so it's a bit of a moot point. The series rests in whether Cook and Root can bat long enough so we consistently post 300 ish, and how well Anderson bowls first up, and then how much reverse he gets later on, if these three players don't play completely out of their skin we won't even be close IMO.

Also Rashid is rubbish, and will be extra rubbish in India, we are dooming ourselves if we pick him. Especially alongside Moeen, it's just stupid, pick you're best bowling attack and best batting line up, if it means we look something like:

Cook
Hales (Why are there no other options here :cry:)
Root
Ballance
Bairstow
Stokes
Moeen
Foakes/Buttler
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

Then so be it. Stokes and Moeen should bat in no numbers other than 6 and 7 respectively, they're just far far better in these spots.
 
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P

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I am probably just overacting to a couple of good innings but I would want Moeen at 5 in that team, I think it is probably his best chance of making a decent career and India could be the chance to see him in that role.

Ansari a decent option I suppose, a Monty comeback would be the best but it is obviously not even remotely possible.
 
GIMH

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Pothas said:
I am probably just overacting to a couple of good innings but I would want Moeen at 5 in that team, I think it is probably his best chance of making a decent career and India could be the chance to see him in that role.

Ansari a decent option I suppose, a Monty comeback would be the best but it is obviously not even remotely possible.
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I think he's suited better to the Matt Prior kind of role. Then again we have like four of them in this side
 
P

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Exactly, 7 is great for him but it is great for Stokes and Bairstow as well. I just don't know how much longer he is going to be able to keep his place as a spinner and Stokes has that true all rounder spot, being a batsman could be his best shot, especially at it is the area we are by far the weakest.

I was not saying any of this a couple of weeks ago though so probably best to ignore me.
 
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G

Groundking

International Debutant
Pothas said:
Exactly, 7 is great for him but it is great for Stokes and Bairstow as well. I just don't know how much longer he is going to be able to keep his place as a spinner and Stokes has that true all rounder spot, being a batsman could be his best shot, especially at it is the area we are by far the weakest part of the side.

I was not saying any of this a couple of weeks ago though so probably best to ignore me.
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TBF it's not actually a bad shout when you consider we have 5 batsmen averaging 50+ this year, and 3 of them bat 6 and lower. (Bairstow 911@77.91, Root 849 @ 56.60, Cook 805 @ 53.66, Moeen 573 @ 63.66, Stokes 431 @ 61.57) Outside chance of Moeen hitting 1k for the year :laugh:
 
wpdavid

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Pothas said:
Exactly, 7 is great for him but it is great for Stokes and Bairstow as well. I just don't know how much longer he is going to be able to keep his place as a spinner and Stokes has that true all rounder spot, being a batsman could be his best shot, especially at it is the area we are by far the weakest.

I was not saying any of this a couple of weeks ago though so probably best to ignore me.
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I wouldn't go that far (your final bit), but I think we're all tempted to put the guy who's just made a big score at number 5 for the winter, whether it's Ali, Bairstow or whoever. And actually I'm with you about Ali, as long as our top 4 do a decent job and he isn't coming in at 50 for 3 too often. The biggest worry about Bairstow at 5 is he could easily be batting quite soon after he's had to keep wicket for a day and a half.
 
flibbertyjibber

flibbertyjibber

Request Your Custom Title Now!
wpdavid said:
I wouldn't go that far (your final bit), but I think we're all tempted to put the guy who's just made a big score at number 5 for the winter, whether it's Ali, Bairstow or whoever. And actually I'm with you about Ali, as long as our top 4 do a decent job and he isn't coming in at 50 for 3 too often. The biggest worry about Bairstow at 5 is he could easily be batting quite soon after he's had to keep wicket for a day and a half.
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I guess the alternative is to play Bairstow at 5 and the spot Vince had goes to a proper keeper and with the all rounders in the side we can afford to pick the best gloveman and bat him at 9. Not that that will happen but it as another option. We have quite a few at present but sadly not one that involves a batsman coming in other than Borthwick as nobody has really done enough to warrant a place.
 
Furball

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Pothas said:
Exactly, 7 is great for him but it is great for Stokes and Bairstow as well. I just don't know how much longer he is going to be able to keep his place as a spinner and Stokes has that true all rounder spot, being a batsman could be his best shot, especially at it is the area we are by far the weakest.

I was not saying any of this a couple of weeks ago though so probably best to ignore me.
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On this if he could justify a spot in the top 6 by the time the next Ashes tour comes around that would be great. Because that then allows England to pick 4 quicks as an off spinner is going to be a complete non-factor in Australian conditions.
 
Howe_zat

Howe_zat

Audio File
Stokes has been a revelation on this tour, all formats all disciplines

Don't think there's a side in world cricket that wouldn't pick him. Maybe a couple of ODI teams.
 
smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
Stokes is seriously gunning it these days. A healthy competition for all rounders spot in the english side. What;s that saying that doesn't fit in here but needs to be mentioned "different stokes for different woakes" :ph34r:

if England can figure out their middle order they should be in for a good long dominant run i think. Fantastic depth
 
Shri

Shri

Mr. Glass
Stoakes and Woakes sounds like the name of a law firm really. I can picture an angry ginger shouting 'OBJECTION!" anime style in court and Woakes crying next to him in the bench.
 
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