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The Selection Problem
- Thread starter Slats4ever
- Start date
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Yes, those Patel decisions sure made a hell of a difference, didn't they?Mr Casson said:
Maybe they might have prolonged his life in Test-cricket, and earnt him some credit for a very poor innings (46 when being dismissed 3 times can be described as nothing else) but I don't somehow think they influenced the result, do you?
age_master
Hall of Fame Member
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
i certainly hope he doesn't boof is still far too good a player
Martyn is the bloke that has to go...
i certainly hope he doesn't boof is still far too good a player
Martyn is the bloke that has to go...
The Argonaut
State Vice-Captain
It's a tricky one. I think that they will drop Clarke if only to lower the risk of burning him out. It's very hot out there and the inexperienced players run the risk of being more mentally fatigued as the series goes on. Keep Lehmann and Martyn in for the 3rd test regardless. If Australia has won the series before the 4th test then bump off one of them to bring Clarke back in. He is a certainty for the tests played in Australia later in the year.
My preference would be for Martyn to be dropped. I have never been a fan of him batting at 4. That said I have some weird opinions when it comes to Australia's batting order. I think that Ponting's game is suited to no. 4 more so than 3 and would bat him there. Both Greg Chappell and Border moved from 3 to 4 as their careers went on. My ideal batting order would be
Hayden, Langer, Katich or Love, Ponting, Lehmann, Clarke, Gilchrist etc.
I know Ponting will always bat at 3 because he likes it but would rather see him at 4.
My preference would be for Martyn to be dropped. I have never been a fan of him batting at 4. That said I have some weird opinions when it comes to Australia's batting order. I think that Ponting's game is suited to no. 4 more so than 3 and would bat him there. Both Greg Chappell and Border moved from 3 to 4 as their careers went on. My ideal batting order would be
Hayden, Langer, Katich or Love, Ponting, Lehmann, Clarke, Gilchrist etc.
I know Ponting will always bat at 3 because he likes it but would rather see him at 4.
Mister Wright
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Couldn't agree more. I have long felt that Ponting is a number 4 & Martyn a 5. I wouldn't be pushing Lehmann out just yet.The Argonaut said:
shaka
International Regular
The Sydney Morning Herald has an article about Lehmann saying that he would step aside for Clarke
This is taken from the SMH article:
Darren Lehmann thinks Michael Clarke should play in every Test for the foreseeable future. Where this leaves Lehmann is less clear, but the 34-year-old says he is considering the massive gesture of volunteering his Test spot to ensure Clarke stays in the Australian side.
Lehmann, whose long-frustrated Test ambitions have fully been realised only in the past two years, has been in superb form this year, save for his twin failures in the Bangalore victory over India in which Clarke's debut stole the headlines.
But while he does not feel his value to the Australian team has diminished - he has made two hundreds and four fifties in his past six Tests - Lehmann realises Clarke's impressive arrival through his maiden Test innings of 151 has posed some almost impossible questions for national selectors, which bring his own position into the spotlight.
Lehmann has said before he would not stand in the way of a worthy up-and-comer, and while injured captain Ricky Ponting's continued absence for the second Test in Chennai from Thursday reprieves selectors this week, Ponting will return for the third match from October 26.
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Though Lehmann is annoyed by some calls for his sacking after one bad Test, he says he would understand if selectors omitted him in Nagpur. That would illustrate how difficult it would be to drop anyone from Australia's top six, given that Lehmann is the stand-in vice-captain.
Despite this, Lehmann is a pragmatist, and says he might save the selectors from making the call.
"It might be the case that I stand down. I haven't ruled that out. That's something I'll think about and talk about after this match," said Lehmann, whose average stands at 49.38 after 21 Tests.
"It's not a generous decision at all. It's just a decision that sometimes has to be made by someone. Sometimes you have to make the decision for them [the selectors] because it's a lot harder for them to make."
The sacrificial step is not set in stone, with Lehmann saying he will speak with chairman Trevor Hohns and his fellow selectors after the second Test to gauge their thinking. While he knows more opportunities will arise - injuries will happen, and Australia will need reserve batsmen on next year's Ashes tour - knowing that Clarke would be taking his place would be of greater comfort.
"If I was a selector, I would think Michael Clarke should play every Test for the next 10 or 12 years. That would be my opinion," Lehmann said.
"Obviously someone has got to miss out. Ricky comes back for the third Test. It's part of life. You don't worry about it too much. If a guy plays a genius knock like that in the first innings of his first Test and is earmarked by all of us to play well, you have to let him in.
"That's fine. I have always said I would not stand in the road of a young player. The disappointing thing for me is that people ... put my name up first because I have had one bad Test match after playing well for the last two years. If he does play and I don't, that's just the way it is at the moment. I don't think it signals the end for someone. It might be a case of him slotting in, and I might fill in for someone else - who knows? I am a firm believer that the game has to move forward. I don't think blokes should be playing on too long. It is a bit different to state cricket where you can help out some young blokes, but in international cricket, you might be holding up a spot for a young guy. If it's me who goes, I'm fine with that.
"It is an impossible situation, but it doesn't play on my mind as much as, say, the media or other people that play the game. It's quite a simple decision."
Lehmann, who has been one of Ponting's most trusted lieutenants and who has vast leadership experience with South Australia and Yorkshire, said Clarke would eventually captain Australia.
"It's really early, but he's a bloke who could captain Australia in the future," Lehmann said. "We always knew he was pretty special. We probably held him back for maybe a year to really make sure he was ready. He's going to have ups and downs along the way but he's a great kid. He works bloody hard and respects the game, more so than any other youngster I've seen in the game for a long time."
Trevor Marshallsea in Chennai
October 13, 2004
This is taken from the SMH article:
Darren Lehmann thinks Michael Clarke should play in every Test for the foreseeable future. Where this leaves Lehmann is less clear, but the 34-year-old says he is considering the massive gesture of volunteering his Test spot to ensure Clarke stays in the Australian side.
Lehmann, whose long-frustrated Test ambitions have fully been realised only in the past two years, has been in superb form this year, save for his twin failures in the Bangalore victory over India in which Clarke's debut stole the headlines.
But while he does not feel his value to the Australian team has diminished - he has made two hundreds and four fifties in his past six Tests - Lehmann realises Clarke's impressive arrival through his maiden Test innings of 151 has posed some almost impossible questions for national selectors, which bring his own position into the spotlight.
Lehmann has said before he would not stand in the way of a worthy up-and-comer, and while injured captain Ricky Ponting's continued absence for the second Test in Chennai from Thursday reprieves selectors this week, Ponting will return for the third match from October 26.
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Though Lehmann is annoyed by some calls for his sacking after one bad Test, he says he would understand if selectors omitted him in Nagpur. That would illustrate how difficult it would be to drop anyone from Australia's top six, given that Lehmann is the stand-in vice-captain.
Despite this, Lehmann is a pragmatist, and says he might save the selectors from making the call.
"It might be the case that I stand down. I haven't ruled that out. That's something I'll think about and talk about after this match," said Lehmann, whose average stands at 49.38 after 21 Tests.
"It's not a generous decision at all. It's just a decision that sometimes has to be made by someone. Sometimes you have to make the decision for them [the selectors] because it's a lot harder for them to make."
The sacrificial step is not set in stone, with Lehmann saying he will speak with chairman Trevor Hohns and his fellow selectors after the second Test to gauge their thinking. While he knows more opportunities will arise - injuries will happen, and Australia will need reserve batsmen on next year's Ashes tour - knowing that Clarke would be taking his place would be of greater comfort.
"If I was a selector, I would think Michael Clarke should play every Test for the next 10 or 12 years. That would be my opinion," Lehmann said.
"Obviously someone has got to miss out. Ricky comes back for the third Test. It's part of life. You don't worry about it too much. If a guy plays a genius knock like that in the first innings of his first Test and is earmarked by all of us to play well, you have to let him in.
"That's fine. I have always said I would not stand in the road of a young player. The disappointing thing for me is that people ... put my name up first because I have had one bad Test match after playing well for the last two years. If he does play and I don't, that's just the way it is at the moment. I don't think it signals the end for someone. It might be a case of him slotting in, and I might fill in for someone else - who knows? I am a firm believer that the game has to move forward. I don't think blokes should be playing on too long. It is a bit different to state cricket where you can help out some young blokes, but in international cricket, you might be holding up a spot for a young guy. If it's me who goes, I'm fine with that.
"It is an impossible situation, but it doesn't play on my mind as much as, say, the media or other people that play the game. It's quite a simple decision."
Lehmann, who has been one of Ponting's most trusted lieutenants and who has vast leadership experience with South Australia and Yorkshire, said Clarke would eventually captain Australia.
"It's really early, but he's a bloke who could captain Australia in the future," Lehmann said. "We always knew he was pretty special. We probably held him back for maybe a year to really make sure he was ready. He's going to have ups and downs along the way but he's a great kid. He works bloody hard and respects the game, more so than any other youngster I've seen in the game for a long time."
Trevor Marshallsea in Chennai
October 13, 2004
mavric41
State Vice-Captain
I think that Lehmann and Martyn might be safe in the short term but if they don't perform spectacularly over the next couple of series both Clarke and Shane Watson will be in the test side before the Ashes series is over. The selectors I reckon are keeping one eye on how well Flintoff is going and see Watson as the answer.
Craig
World Traveller
It is a big call to step aside to let Michael Clarke to have a go - finicially (ie the amount the get paid per Test and his contract) and to pretty much end his own Test career.
If Lehmann steps aside, can he saves us the time as well and retire from international cricket (Tests) because he will have as much chance of playing Tests again as there is of me winning Lotto this weekend.
If Lehmann steps aside, can he saves us the time as well and retire from international cricket (Tests) because he will have as much chance of playing Tests again as there is of me winning Lotto this weekend.
TendulkarFan
School Boy/Girl Captain
Aren't all you guys worried about nothing here? The second match may very well determine decisively who will be dropped to make room for Ponting, especially if Australians lose that match.
shaka
International Regular
IMO Australia will not lose the 2nd test. I feel that without Tendulkar India are increasingly unlikely on winning this test match.
I do not think that India are 'ordinary' without Tendulkar, but he makes a huge difference in knowing that he is on your team.
I highly doubt that Lehmann will make it back in any form of the international game if he steps aside this time.
I do not think that India are 'ordinary' without Tendulkar, but he makes a huge difference in knowing that he is on your team.
I highly doubt that Lehmann will make it back in any form of the international game if he steps aside this time.
TendulkarFan
School Boy/Girl Captain
I am an Indian supporter and I can tell you one trait that has always characterised Indian cricket teams is inconsistency.shaka said:
However, I also know that for whatever reason, this Indian team just gets its engines revved up and ready to roar when playing the Aussies. It seems they take all other games for granted but when it comes to Aussies, they believe they have a point to prove.
Laxman, Dravid and Ganguly are still alive and kicking. And law of averages tells me the day isn't far off when Sehwag fires. I wouldn't write them off just yet.
deeps
International 12th Man
well richard, i have seen marto play plenty and i have seen lehmann play plenty as well.. i live in australia, and so i have seen many of their domestic matches, as well as the fact that i watch as much cricket as i can. And i can fairly confidently say i have seen more of both martyn and lehmann than you have (in domestic comps)
and let me tell you, in INTERNATIONAL TEST cricket, lehmann has only played a handful of tests. bt he has shown he has the temperament to play test cricket. Although he is not complteetly proven, he is proven enough. i never said clarke has proven himself.
Now to watch, martyn is a wonderful batsman. Looks very stylish etc etc. However, martyn goes through much too many patches of bad form, followed by a small patch of wonderful form, and then again, alot of poor form. Also, when the pressure is on, he tends to get out. Of course, there's 3 or 4 exceptions,where he's come to the rescue, but more often than not, he succumbs to the pressure. the fact that when australia loses a test match, he averages a mere 31 must be in the selectors mind.players like ponting average 44 when aus lose
Lehmann has offered to stand down, or has said he is contemplating it, however in the selectors minds, the question in their minds would be
"clarke, marto, or katich". With katich's article "i'll treat every test from now on as a bonus", i dont think it has done the kat any favours.
in the end i think clarke will miss out.. but he will be back in the not too distant future, replacing damian martyn.
and let me tell you, in INTERNATIONAL TEST cricket, lehmann has only played a handful of tests. bt he has shown he has the temperament to play test cricket. Although he is not complteetly proven, he is proven enough. i never said clarke has proven himself.
Now to watch, martyn is a wonderful batsman. Looks very stylish etc etc. However, martyn goes through much too many patches of bad form, followed by a small patch of wonderful form, and then again, alot of poor form. Also, when the pressure is on, he tends to get out. Of course, there's 3 or 4 exceptions,where he's come to the rescue, but more often than not, he succumbs to the pressure. the fact that when australia loses a test match, he averages a mere 31 must be in the selectors mind.players like ponting average 44 when aus lose
Lehmann has offered to stand down, or has said he is contemplating it, however in the selectors minds, the question in their minds would be
"clarke, marto, or katich". With katich's article "i'll treat every test from now on as a bonus", i dont think it has done the kat any favours.
in the end i think clarke will miss out.. but he will be back in the not too distant future, replacing damian martyn.
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Mr Casson
Cricketer Of The Year
What I find interesting about this is that Lehmann says he might *give* his spot to Clarke, whereas he really can't make that decision. All he can do is vacate his own position, but he doesn't pick his own replacement.
That said, I'm sure he can just make himself unavailable under the proviso that Clarke plays. If the selectors didn't want Clarke, then Lehmann could just come back.
That said, I'm sure he can just make himself unavailable under the proviso that Clarke plays. If the selectors didn't want Clarke, then Lehmann could just come back.