The season that wasnt....a tail of woe

[robelinda]

Yep 20 wickets is the thing. Quite a BIG thing. Very concerned over Katich/Ponting/Hussey/Haddin, they cant all still be there given the middle order flogging by England. Haddin is obviously less an issue, and Katich missed 3 tests but surely is the most solid of the older brigade. Does that mean its either Hussey or Ponting to be axed, or both? If Katich does come back then I dont see how any newer players can be accommodated without Huss or Punter given the flick.

 

[Spark]

That's exactly the thing. Katman is almost certainly the one who will get the axe when it falls but in my way of thinking he's the one who least deserves it. For two years he was one of the only two or three top order bats to perform to the standards we expect.

The thing about the batting is that there is enough ability, talent and experience in there - even if we lose a few older blokes - to ensure that we won't get flogged on a regular basis (whether they do that is up to them, but they should). If you picked the best six Test batsmen you end up with exactly the same six batsmen you had 18 months ago (assuming everyone was including Haddin in that). So you can't really do anything about that. And if it worked properly, then it could be a very powerful batting lineup - Ponting, Hussey, Clarke is the same middle order that five years ago averaged 250-300 total - but that's another matter. The central problem - beyond the obvious one, being selection, and the other harrowing one, being captaincy, is the bowling.

 

[howardj]

Usman
Katich
Watson
Clarke
Ponting
Smith
Paine
Johnson
Hauritz
Copeland
Cummins

Reasoning....

Usman - Opened in junior ranks, and his game is custom built for it. Hughes has had ample chances and been massively exposed

Katich -(Lack quality openers and I love this guy’s attitude – would be a great mentor for Usman)

Watson (Number 3 in all forms – our premier bat)

Clarke (Must be judged on performances from here on)

Ponting (Can afford two old guys in the team (him and Katich) but no more. Vital in South Africa and SL in the next 12 months)

Smith (Love this kid – so much scope for improvement in both disciplines, and already has Test half centuries)

Paine (Can’t afford three 35 year olds in the team, so he takes the place of Haddin who at most has 12 months in him in any case. Yep, they are called hard decisions, and these must be made)
.
Hauritz (We just need to pick our best spinner)

Johnson (Like Clarke above, must be judged on performances from this point onwards)

Copeland (His stats are amazing for a young guy, and he is very accurate/economical which is just what we need)

Cummins (Did you see this kid in the Shield Final? 145km and swung it both ways. Let’s be bold, like we were when we picked Warne and McGrath from nowhere. Had enough of a Siddle/Bollinger/Johnson/Hilf pace attack)

 

[vcs]

The Ashes was dire, utterly dire. Everything that could go wrong in Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney, did. Total failure.

Australia are still one of the best ODI teams in the world, just not leagues ahead of everyone else as they used to be. Not much else can be read into the WC defeat.

 

[Spark]

FWIW, I reckon we either stick to the PEWS method of "pick the best six batsmen, the best keeper batsmen, and the best four bowlers" selection or

Hughes/Katich
Watson
Khawaja
Ponting
Clarke
Hussey
Wade/Haddin (would like to see some FC tons from Paine first)
Hauritz/O'Keefe
Johnson
Bollinger/Siddle
Copeland

 

[Noble One]

You can understand why the selectors do have some tough decisions.

Between howardj, Spark and Outbreak they have suggested 19 different players. In years past you could name 9 or 10 players that everyone would agree upon, and then some slight differences in the other one or two players.

 

[Ausage]

If we're going to lose 1 or 2 of the old guard it shouldn't be Hussey to go. He was the one batsman who actually had a decent Ashes even if he didn't have a great last 2 tests. Single handedly made us look even remotely competetive, far better than we deserved to be anyway.

 

[pup11]

The thing with the Australian side is that the the whole management (top to bottom) has completly lost the plot and they just don't know what the **** they are doing.

Unlike the common sentiment I don't agree that apart from a few selections there was a whole lot wrong with the sort of players that were picked during the last 12 months or so.

Whether its Hilfenhaus or Hughes or Tait they were there in the team because they had actually done 'well' in the domestic arena so they obviously aren't as bad people make it sound and at the end of the day the whole difference lies in how a guy is used and backed.

In case of almost every Australian player in recent times they have been used poorly and then have been thrown away and forgotten about in a jiffy, now I don't care how much talent you might have but with that sort handling you are never going to get a stable side and that's exactly what has been happening.

Its time to look forward now and build a new side and these are the best possible squads in present circumstances

Tests

#Hughes
#Watson
#Ponting (c)
#Clarke
#Hussey
#Cosgrove
#Haddin (wk)
#Johnson
#O'Keffe
#Siddle
#Copeland
Reserves
#Khawaja
#Hilfenhaus
#Hauritz
#Finch

ODI

#Finch
#Watson
#Clarke (c)
#Ferguson
#Cosgrove
#Smith
#Wade (wk)
#Johnson
#Hauritz
#Lee
#Starc
Reserves
#J.Pattinson
#C.Lynn
#O'Keffe
#Christian


T20
#Warner
#Watson
#Finch
#Smith
#White (c)
#Wade (wk)
#Christian
#O'Keffe
#Johnson
#Hastings
#Mckay
Reserves
#Starc
#Lyon
#S.Marsh
#M.Marsh

Ponting bashing might be great fun for many but the real culprits for Australia's fall from grace are likes of Hilditch, Cooley, Langer and Nielsen.

People might argue that they are just blokes who work behind the scenes and should they really be blamed for the recent debacles, but from where I look at it all of these blokes have absolutely failed do their respective jobs and if any thoughts of rebuilding a strong squad are to be entertained then these blokes have to go.

My view is that now going forward the T20 and ODI teams should predominately feature young talent and their test credentials should then be gauged based upon how they go in those formats.

At present handing test caps to players based upon their FC performances won't be the great idea because the fact is that the difference between the Australian domestic and international conditions couldn't be any more different.

Likes of Ponting and Lee should be around for sometime in a leadership/mentor role for the younger lot and that's their best use going forward. Ponting probably also wants to play ODI cricket for a while as well, but don't think he has got much left to achieve going forward playing in that format and I think only the lack of a capable leader might be something that's willing him to keep going.

 

[outbreak]

Howard,
My thinking in the old guys still being there is for a test team that could walk out on the park and play tomorrow. Between now and next ashes the only older players i'd like to see still in the side are Watson, Clarke and Johnson. Perhaps Ponting could still hang around but he'd need to improve between now and then. All the guys you've thrown up are people i'd be hoping would come in and replace the older players who'd be jettisoned in time.

I have hesitancy about Watto batting in the number 3 spot though, may just be me but with his struggles to convert to big scores I've always seen number 3 as someone who can dig in and anchor the side if their off to a bad start. On the flip side though he is consistent at scoring some runs.

 

[GotSpin]

Worst. Season. Ever

 

[pup11]

FWIW, I reckon we either stick to the PEWS method of "pick the best six batsmen, the best keeper batsmen, and the best four bowlers" selection or

Hughes/Katich
Watson
Khawaja
Ponting
Clarke
Hussey
Wade/Haddin (would like to see some FC tons from Paine first)
Hauritz/O'Keefe
Johnson
Bollinger/Siddle
Copeland

I doubt whether Dougeh really has much international cricket left in him now, his conditioning to start with was hardly good enough for an international fast bowler and now he has also suffered from basically a career threatening ankle injury.

Would love to see him back in Aussie colours but I don't think that's going to happen, in a best case scenario he might be considered for ODI's but I doubt he would be considered for test cricket.

Also I don't see the sense in you pushing the experienced guys lower down the order in your team, don't see how Ponting or Clarke would just become better batsmen by sliding down the order.

What they really need to do is get their form going again rather than pushing young rooks into the line of fire.

 

[Spark]

I doubt whether Dougeh really has much international cricket left in him now, his conditioning to start with was hardly good enough for an international fast bowler and now he has also suffered from basically a career threatening ankle injury.

Would love to see him back in Aussie colours but I don't think that's going to happen, in a best case scenario he might be considered for ODI's but I doubt he would be considered for test cricket.

Also I don't see the sense in you pushing the experienced guys lower down the order in your team, don't see how Ponting or Clarke would just become better batsmen by sliding down the order.

What they really need to do is get their form going again rather than pushing young rooks into the line of fire.

I think Ponting will be more useful down the order. Really Ponting/Hussey/Khawaja can be interchanged but I would much rather the averaging-65 Clarke at #5 rather than the averaging-25 Clarke at #4.

I think you may be right on Bollinger but I would still like to see him there as when fit he's our best bowler.

On the earlier point... North? Beer? Doherty? More to the point, the 17-man squad debacle? The Hodge-like treatment of Hauritz? The fact that it was plain that the selectors had very little idea what our best XI was? The fact they played Clarke unfit and completely destroyed his summer in doing so? Picking Paine in the WC squad? The selectors deserve everything they get and then some.

 

[robelinda]

Its doubly harsh because unusually we lost the Ashes due to both awful batting and bowling, did we bat worse or bowl worse???? Batted badly on day 1 a lot, but then bowled abysmally in the 4th and 5th tests, just zero penetration, Poms looked like precision experts with their execution and planning, we seemed to just run up and hope for the best, how do we fix that?? coaching or captaincy or new bowlers?

 

[Spark]

Its doubly harsh because unusually we lost the Ashes due to both awful batting and bowling, did we bat worse or bowl worse???? Batted badly on day 1 a lot, but then bowled abysmally in the 4th and 5th tests, just zero penetration, Poms looked like precision experts with their execution and planning, we seemed to just run up and hope for the best, how do we fix that?? coaching or captaincy or new bowlers?

To be honest as soon as Hilfenhaus bowled that dreadful, dreadful over with the second new ball and was ripped off by Clarke it was pretty obvious to me that we had mentally given up as a bowling unit. They'd had enough.

I would say we bowled - and fielded! - worse though. You can understand bowlers being under pressure when batsmen had put undefendable totals such as 98 on the board, but we just didn't look like we knew how to get them out, aside from one little spell on Day 2/early Day 3 on Sydney (and Perth, obviously)

---

At a bare minimum, I would like to see new selectors (five points for captain obvious) and Ponting to give up the captaincy in all forms of the game. He will still be the de facto leader of the side, Clarke will never even try to be a more dominant personality in the dressing room than him. But his tactics are degrading, not improving, and they are hurting us. He's best when he leads from the front - with his bat. Let him do that in peace. I would also like to take a serious look at the backroom staff and the way we go about our preparation - perhaps we need to go back to a more old-school preparation style, which means lots and lots and lots of overs in the nets with real bowlers vs. real batsmen.

I wouldn't read too much in the WC loss though. There's no shame in losing in a tense match to India in India. Although Tait can **** off.

 

[howardj]

There's more sense in this thread than what there is in CA headquarters.

At least here there's an acknowledgement that the whole system has blown off course.

 

[howardj]

CA board should not escape blame either. Some of their bewlidering decisions include:

- ordering Hussey and Bollinger to play Champions League instead of preparing for a Test against India
- reappointing Nielsen for three years last November
- scrapping domestic 50 over cricket in a world cup year
- scheduling SL ODIs on the eve of an Ashes series
- further expanding the Big Bash league rather than focussing on how to improve Shield cricket
- not employing a fulltime fielding coach (Mike Young is part time).

 

[pup11]

Now I'm reading these rumours on the internet that either Paine or Haddin would be lead the Aussie side for the tour of Sri Lanka and if there is any truth to this then I don't know what to say!!!

I mean I'm not totally against Haddin being made the captain because he has got a good aggressive attitude to the way he plays, he is not someone you expect to take a backward step, but why so much love for Paine..!?

I really don't understand what' so special about Paine, he at best is just a steady keeper-batsman and seriously it would be nothing short of joke if he ever captains the Aussie test side.

 

[Spark]

Paine for captain is just WTF. Why?!

 

[pup11]

CA board should not escape blame either. Some of their bewlidering decisions include:

- ordering Hussey and Bollinger to play Champions League instead of preparing for a Test against India
- reappointing Nielsen for three years last November
- scrapping domestic 50 over cricket in a world cup year
- scheduling SL ODIs on the eve of an Ashes series
- further expanding the Big Bash league rather than focussing on how to improve Shield cricket
- not employing a fulltime fielding coach (Mike Young is part time).

Some very valid points these but you gotta understand that the suits running CA are driven by money and all those decisions too were purely are purely financial ones.

CA though obviously are forgetting that if the standard of cricket falls in Australia then the viewer interest too would drop which would result in losses, but I guess they are just making hay while the sun shines.

 

[pup11]

Paine for captain is just WTF. Why?!

CA analyst probably believe a blonde pin-up boy as skipper would bring in more female audience, which means more $$$...!!!