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The Records and Milestones thread

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah. I know he played a lot of tests against England but that encompasses Gooch at the beginning and KP, Strauss et all by the end. And for those in that middle era period he did run through like butter, Thorpe was great and Hick was meant to be a good player of spin
 

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
India's problem in that era was that aside from the two guys you mentioned they were mostly terrible.
India was a mediocre side most of 70s and 80s but were far from terrible. Never lost a test series in Australia through 80s and only a lost a closely fought series down under in 1977-78 by 2-3(against a Packer weakened side admittedly). India also won a test series in England in 1986. That WI side absolutely crushed us in 1983-84 which is more an indication of their quality.

The reason I brought all of this up is because there seems to be an almost religious- like worshipping on the West Indies during their era of dominance, like they were unbeatable. They weren't. They drew a lot of games and even a number of series in that period.
There is an equal religious like worshiping of Australia during their period of dominance.The Aussie dominance period lasted like half of WI.Like I said before that Aussie side was as good as WI and there would be nothing in it if they lock horns with each other. It is just that the WI could field another good quality side outside their best possible XI during 1976-1995.
It is purely speculative how ATG WI would have done against Warne/Murali. It is best to leave it where it is.
 

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
India was a mediocre side most of 70s and 80s but were far from terrible. Never lost a test series in Australia through 80s and only a lost a closely fought series down under in 1977-78 by 2-3(against a Packer weakened side admittedly). India also won a test series in England in 1986. That WI side absolutely crushed us in 1983-84 which is more an indication of their quality.


There is an equal religious like worshiping of Australia during their period of dominance.The Aussie dominance period lasted like half of WI.Like I said before that Aussie side was as good as WI and there would be nothing in it if they lock horns with each other. It is just that the WI could field another good quality side outside their best possible XI during 1976-1995.
It is purely speculative how ATG WI would have done against Warne/Murali. It is best to leave it where it is.
What would this other good quality side look like? As I've alluded too earlier I'd have serious doubts about the batting depth
 

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
What would this other good quality side look like? As I've alluded too earlier I'd have serious doubts about the batting depth
I will give it a try.

Main XI

Greenidge
Haynes
Richards
Lara
Richardson
Lloyd
Dujon
Marshall
Ambrose
Holding
Garner

2nd XI

Fredericks
Rowe
Kallicharan
Gomes
Hooper
Logie
Murray
Bishop
Roberts
Croft
Walsh

The batting lineup in second XI is of the same quality as South Africa's since readmission, but bowling is comfortably superior.
 

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Fair enough. I feel Rowe did sweet **** all after 1976 especially as an opener but I don't want to get too pedantic, I'll take some similar liberties with my side hehe

Australia's top 2 sides for reference, I don't know what our full period of dominance was but I guess it started around Warnes entry to the side and ended with his departure

Best XI

Hayden
Slater
Ponting
M Waugh
S Waugh
Border *
Gilchrist +
Warne
Gillespie
Fleming
McGrath

Second best

Taylor
Langer
Boon
Martyn
Clarke
Hussey
Healy +
Reiffel
Lee
Miller
Macgill
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Younis Khan, Mohammed Yousuf, Kallis, Cullinan, Graeme Smith, Strauss, Thorpe etc. were far from bad players of spin and had success against some other good spinners but rarely did well against Australia. Now I'm not going to look up how many times Warne individually got them out etc. but I'm guessing he played a part.

No doubt Warne sucked in India and got taken apart by peak Lara in that '99 series but it doesn't follow that he only bullied weak players of spin. You don't take 700 wickets at 25 doing just that.
Lol... I never said Warne was not good against good players of spin. My point was Warne was great against teams that were not good against other great spinners around the world either. Against the very best players of spin, Warne was average. And given the batsmen of the 80s Windies team (which was the context of this discussion) are closer to the Tendulkar, Lara, Dravid, Jayawardenas than the list you mentioned, I don't see the relevance of this. this. And honestly I dunno how you got the bolded part from any of my posts here. Nothing I said suggested that and I should know, I am one of the biggest Warne fans here. :)

Also I think it's odd HB considers those 5 guys better than 90% of the batsman Warne faced. Surely other than Viv the rest can't be considered on some higher tier than many, many players who averaged 42-47(ie the range of Haynes to Lloyd) in the period Warne bowled in

If they were so good surely they should have all averaged over 50 considering most of the best bowlers of their era were on their team
I am sure the wickets of the 80s and the noughties were the same. :p I think it was palpably obvious that irrespective of whom the best bowlers were, the overall quality of bowling as well as pitches made it much harder for batsmen int the 80s than in the noughties. If your point is that Greenidge, Haynes, Lloyd and Kallicharan belong with Thorpe and Cullinan, be my guest. Like I said, that line up is better than 90% of the batsmen Warney bowled at. I don't see any reason why that cannot be considered true.
 
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mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Better average than Lloyd, Greenidge, etc

But with Cullinan doesn't the story go Warne basically sent him to therapy and he was meant to be the great white hope for SA batting prior to it. I dunno the full details

Regardless nearly every top 6 Warne came up against had a couple of great bats minimum. England during 97-02 the notable exception I suppose

But, Anwar, Inzy, Younis, Yousuf

Jayasuriya, Sanga, Mahela, Aravinda

Lara, Hooper, Richardson, Chanderpaul

Kirsten, Kallis, Cullinan

Fleming, Astle, McMillan a step down I'll grant you.

Obviously India were stacked

All these blokes have records on par with Alvin Kallicharan, Clive Lloyd and Desmond Haynes. That 90% stat is damn disingenuous
 
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Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Let's get back to records and milestones.

Pakistan manage to fit more suck into an Australian tour than ever before.
 

Bolo.

International Captain
A streak of 14 losses in a country has to be some sort of record hasn't it?
Likely. Most of the weak teams havent played that many in a single country. Pak are just hopeless vs bounce.

Zims record vs RSA has this beat on the incompetence scale, even if they cant top this one particularly. Something silly like 35 or 40 losses without a win across formats.
 

vcs

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Haven't beaten India in a World Cup ever.

Have lost every Test in Australia since Clinton was in the White House.
 

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
There was a period between 1984-1988 in which England lost 14 out of 15 matches to WI, with one match drawn.
 

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