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The over-rated XI

Langeveldt

Soutie
PY said:
*he shakes his head in utter disbelieve*

Give the bloke a break..........he was man of the series this summer.
Anyone who saw the 142 would know he isn't over-rated.....423 runs@52.87 with devastating power and timing (in a sense of batting and situational timing) i.e. the 95 off 104 balls at The AMP Oval.
Okay he has had a good summer (against the weakest SA bowling I ever wish to see) but that doesnt necessarily stop him from being over rated. I want to see some wickets as well...

Comparisons to Botham make me shake my head in disbelief... Thats what I mean by over rated...
 

gibbsnsmith

State Vice-Captain
Botham...that reminds me...

My school P.E teachers say all allrouders are overrated especially Botham, Imran Khan and Kapil Dev...
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Langeveldt said:
You cant say he is up to it after one good performance, a typical instance of someone being over rated! Ill gladly rate him when i see this kind of stuff more often from him!
Did I say that he's up to it? I'm saying that he's done nothing to warrant being called over-rated, unless you've spotted a fault in his game/performance?

Even the greatest of players have to start somewhere, so I say that he should be given a chance before such thoughts cross the mind.
 

Mr. P

International Vice-Captain
A question for craig.

No offence of course, but are you still going to write this article? Mr. Mxy has already done about the same thing. If you are, fine. If not, i think this thread should be closed as the topic has been covered.
 

Neil Pickup

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gibbsnsmith said:
My school P.E teachers say all allrouders are overrated especially Botham, Imran Khan and Kapil Dev...
Your school PE Teachers are muppets.

Botham and Kapil Dev are legends and Imran is probably the best all rounder of all time with close competition from Garfield.
 

Neil Pickup

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marc71178 said:
There was a massive over-rated thread about 12-18 months ago - possibly the first real CW thread that had a lot of debate IIRC!
Certainly was.

Some idiot suggested Vaughan should be dropped for David Fulton :rolleyes:

*Hides*
 

Craig

World Traveller
Mr. Ponting said:
A question for craig.

No offence of course, but are you still going to write this article? Mr. Mxy has already done about the same thing. If you are, fine. If not, i think this thread should be closed as the topic has been covered.
Probably not now. I still need to have a talk with James though on what to do.

I can think up more names:

Stuart MacGill, James Anderson, Ashley Giles, Craig McMillan, Makhaya Ntini.

The reason why I put Brett Lee in there is he simply not accurate. Flintoff because he lacks the inability to take wickets - hence the reason why he averages 50 and has a strike rate of over 200 with the ball. Yep vital to the team :rolleyes: . I have never heard so much nonsense.

That 142 was hardly special. It was an innings he played when the game was lost, that 95 was a much better innings.

Marc has said he has matured. Judging by his shot selection at times, it proves that he hasnt.
 

Eclipse

International Debutant
Brett Lee is accurate it's just his mind set that makes him try to many diffrent balls.

I have seen him in the nets and he can put the ball were ever he wants. They were doing this thing to see how many time's a bowler could hit the stumps in succsesion and Brett Lee won with like 7 times in a row.

Lee has a flat trajectory as well witch mean's even his good length balls come on to the bat nicly and can be driven. So basicly untill he fixes that witch he is working on he realies on his swing, pace and ability to bowl yorkers and bouncers.
 

Top_Cat

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Flintoff because he lacks the inability to take wickets
Lacks the inability to take wickets?? Damn, wish I lacked that one too.............

I think it's incredibly mean-spirited to write an article devoted solely to bashing players in such a way. I just find that sort of thing really negative. You may as well call the article "10 Things I Hate About These Players" or "Why These Guys Suck".
 

age_master

Hall of Fame Member
Top_Cat said:
I think it's incredibly mean-spirited to write an article devoted solely to bashing players in such a way. I just find that sort of thing really negative. You may as well call the article "10 Things I Hate About These Players" or "Why These Guys Suck".

i think top_cats got a point there.

as much as i dont like Macgill hes still a hell of a leggie, arguably the best in the world, over rated, i dont think so, whenever he has been given a chance to play for Australia he has done fantastically well.

Brett lee - do you have any idea how hard it is to bowl a good yorker, let alone at 150km/h. let alone do it fairly consistantly. brett lees control generally is also improving, and its quite obvious when you watch him the way that he is improvoing as a bowler.

James Anderson - nup, saw him when he was out here - best bowler in england :) great bowler with loads of potential

Ntini is also improving, hes had to go through a fair bit to get where he is and hes doing ok for mine, his SR's are quite good.

Craig Macmillan - i dont think ive heard anyone say too much about him, hes a pretty solid player, knows abit about knocking the ball out of the park, no complaints about that from me
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Craig said:
Probably not now. I still need to have a talk with James though on what to do.

I can think up more names:

Stuart MacGill, James Anderson, Ashley Giles, Craig McMillan, Makhaya Ntini.

The reason why I put Brett Lee in there is he simply not accurate. Flintoff because he lacks the inability to take wickets - hence the reason why he averages 50 and has a strike rate of over 200 with the ball. Yep vital to the team :rolleyes: . I have never heard so much nonsense.
I echo that sentiment completely. Brett Lee bowled some exceptional spells against the current world #1, Brian Lara and other when he was in the Caribbean this year. He didn't have the greatest luck, but he was hardly poor. I haven't seen

Andy Flintoff recently, but I gather from your comments that you saw the SA/Eng series?

James Anderson is a fine young talent and is probably better than any of the young pacers coming out of Australia right now.

Stuart MacGill may not be the most consistently accurate bowler, but no leggies (bar Warne) really are. He turns the ball more than most leggies could ever dream to and he has had a good career thus far.

Ashley Giles, as far as I am concerned, is generally not rated highly enough to be considered over-rated. England have come to terms with the fact that, at this team, he is the only decent spinner they have.

Craig McMillan is one of New Zealand's best batsmen. Currently he's in a bad run of form, but you really can't hold that against him. Someone once said, "Get the runs while they are flowing, because there'll be times when you can't buy one."

Makhaya Ntini is South Africa's second best seam option. I haven't seen him in a Test for 2 years, but he hasn't exactly struck me as being a useless player/
 

Craig

World Traveller
No, I have pretty much not rated him since very early on his career. So those comments on his performances against Eng v Saf I making on him are very incorrect.
 

Craig

World Traveller
age_master said:
as much as i dont like Macgill hes still a hell of a leggie, arguably the best in the world, over rated, i dont think so, whenever he has been given a chance to play for Australia he has done fantastically well.
Despite bowling some pretty crap balls. I do have remember him getting taken part by some certain batsmen.

age_master said:
Brett lee - do you have any idea how hard it is to bowl a good yorker, let alone at 150km/h. let alone do it fairly consistantly. brett lees control generally is also improving, and its quite obvious when you watch him the way that he is improvoing as a bowler.
Shoiab Ahktar can do that - so there's nothing special about that.

age_master said:
James Anderson - nup, saw him when he was out here - best bowler in england :) great bowler with loads of potential
But potential can take you so far. It doesnt make him a great bowler or great player or anything. Just ask Ramnaresh Sarwan. He his starting to shake off the "potential" bag. His accuracy is inconsistant.
 
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Craig

World Traveller
Eclipse said:
I have seen him in the nets and he can put the ball were ever he wants. They were doing this thing to see how many time's a bowler could hit the stumps in succsesion and Brett Lee won with like 7 times in a row.
When was this? Before or after his elbow injury? And was there a batsman there? If so, was it just a club 3rd Grade batsman or a FC cricket or at the acadmay?

More details please.
 

Top_Cat

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Despite bowling some pretty crap balls. I do have remember him getting taken part by some certain batsmen.
Oh, you mean like every bowler who's ever played the game at any level?

And so because he's been taken apart by a few batsmen (again, just like everyone else) suddenly he's over-rated? So his wickets against most other teams evidently count for naught. A TAD unfair, in my book.

Shoiab Ahktar can do that, so there's nothing special about that.
A handful of bowlers can do it in the world and that makes it 'nothing special'? Two particular bowlers can do it and it's 'nothing special'? Riiiight............

There is PLENTY special about being able to bowl an accurate yorker at 150km/h and because there's another person or persons who can do it, does not make it any less so.

There were plenty of others who could do complicated maths when Albert Einstein was alive; does that make him less special? When Hawking started to dismantle parts of the General and Special Relativity theories, did that make Einstein's discoveries less special? I think not.

But potential can take you so far. It doesnt make him a great bowler or great player or anything. Just ask Ramnaresh Sarwan. He his starting to shake off the "potential" bag. His accuracy is inconsistant.
"His accuracy is inconsistent"; what does that mean? That he can't bowl accurately? Rubbish. That he can't do it on a consistent basis? Rubbish. James Anderson has proven on quite a few occasions that if he's nothing else, he's accurate so unless we're thinking of two different James Andersons, this statement is false and I'm sure if you looked at a computer-generated view of his deliveries relative to someone like a McGrath, you'd see that whilst he's not in the same class, he's right up there.

If you're referring to the Eng-SA Test series, it's pretty obvious he was down on pace because he was tired. Something like that isn't remarked upon by so many people without having a grain of truth to it and from my own observations in watching the series, he looked buggered, really.

And no kidding, I don't know how anyone could have watched the same series as I did (Eng-SA) and not concluded that Flintoff has at LEAST improved by plenty since before the series began. People may not quite rate him REALLY highly but it's only a couple of consistent series' away and he showed plenty in that series that he's more than just a slogger who can bowl a bit.
 

Neil Pickup

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I agree with everything you say Corey, except on Anderson's accuracy. I don't know about the winter, but in the summer for all the good balls he produced there were almost as many full tosses, half volleys and long hops.

However, he's got that "happy knack" to quote Mark Nicholas of taking wickets, and I'm prepared to give him benefit of the doubt as he looked very knackered :)
 

Top_Cat

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I agree with everything you say Corey, except on Anderson's accuracy. I don't know about the winter, but in the summer for all the good balls he produced there were almost as many full tosses, half volleys and long hops.
I am referring to our summer last. You don't bowl 10 overs for 12 without being very accurate (even notwithstanding that I've argued in the past that Bevan and Martyn weren't really trying to belt the bowlers anyway; shaddap, I was bloody there! :D). And in general, he was pretty accurate all series, hence why he picked up wickets.

Another telling sign is his pace. Whilst watching the recent series, he barely rose above 85mph and most of the time was in the 80-83mph bracket. Several times here in Australia, he was above 90mph or just below it. Now, you could argue differing conditions, atmospheric or otherwise, but that's a big drop by anyone's criteria and that tells you something about his physical shape I think.
 

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