The Official *tooextracool v Richard Thread* (**Warning** May contain long posts)

[Craig]

I think it is because people stop following the thread when the realise it is going down the inevitable, I won't give ground & neither will I path. It's like "Here we go again, they're at it again! That's it for my involvement in this thread."

I, and I assume most other like me have about a 5 line post attention span, any longer than that and it can get too much, especially if there are about 5 or 6 posts in a row that are 15-30 lines long.

Not every sentence in a post needs to be debated, a simple summary would be enough.

Best post ever.

 

[SJS]

I can only try as hard as I can try!
It's not possible to just cut the arguments like that.

Hi Richard (and Extracool),

Read this even though its long !!

I am equally guilty of posting long ones at times (pretty often actually) and I understand that sometimes one feels 'compelled' to use four paragraphs where a couple of sentences would do. I have had people send me e mails saying you put across good points but please make it short . So clearly this isnt criticism for the sake of it.

I too admire many points that both of you make but still its now prety long since I read posts of the two of you. Let me tell you why.

PLEASE NOTE THE WORDS IN BOLD TYPE

1. I think you people 'appear' to be getting personal in the sense you feel somehow obliged to respond and the response is always negative. Its as if agreeing would somehow diminish your own status as a critic.

2. You appear to get into semantics and words and sentences and often miss the contents or lose sight of them. Hence Quoting five/six sentences from the same post in a response and responding to each of them separately. Thus the response is not really to the overall gist/drift of a post, if you see what I am saying.

3. There does seem to be a have-to-have-the-last-word syndrome. This makes the response and counter response appear endless and irritating to others though I am sure the two of you find it pretty stimulating (kidding).

4. Its not always a question of keeping a thread alive. I think your arguments can sometimes 'kill' the thread for others.

5. There seems no stage at which one of you will realise that your argument is getting nowhere or that the other is not likely to come round to your point of view at which stage the debate should be given up, dont you think ?
If a discussion seems to be heading nowhere than to continue it is like talking to yourself, isnt it ? That is not the best thing to do, least of all in a public forum. Isnt it better to say you win or I rest my case and get out with a smile on the post (and on your face) rather than leave frowns or not-again-smiles on the faces of co-posters.

I repeat this is just an observation from someone who would genuinly like to be able to read the posts of you two and respond sometimes at least. Believe me today I dont and rarely ,if ever, get into a discussion with you guys. The loss is mine, I concede.

Regards

 

[garage flower]

Great post SJS. Very succinctly and diplomatically put.

As others have implied, I think Richard and TEC are good for the forum because they're very active and could potentially stimulate debate amongst others. Things have now got to the stage though, where they seem to be stymieing debate because people can't be bothered with threads containing page upon page of oneupmanship.

Your 2nd point about quoting 5 or 6 sentences from the same post, thereby confusing the overall thrust of the original post, was particularly pertinent. It makes it very difficult for anybody else to follow what's happening and perhaps join in.

 

[Richard]

Hi Richard (and Extracool),

Read this even though its long !!

I am equally guilty of posting long ones at times (pretty often actually) and I understand that sometimes one feels 'compelled' to use four paragraphs where a couple of sentences would do. I have had people send me e mails saying you put across good points but please make it short . So clearly this isnt criticism for the sake of it.

Eh eh.

I too admire many points that both of you make but still its now prety long since I read posts of the two of you. Let me tell you why.

PLEASE NOTE THE WORDS IN BOLD TYPE

1. I think you people 'appear' to be getting personal in the sense you feel somehow obliged to respond and the response is always negative. Its as if agreeing would somehow diminish your own status as a critic.

Hmm, not on my part. I simply don't see any sense in tooextracool's words (usually because they're normally a direct contradiction of something I'm trying to put across), and I'm trying to point-out what I'm trying to point-out.

2. You appear to get into semantics and words and sentences and often miss the contents or lose sight of them. Hence Quoting five/six sentences from the same post in a response and responding to each of them separately. Thus the response is not really to the overall gist/drift of a post, if you see what I am saying.

I see what you're saying. It's tricky - there are times when I amalgamate (sp, Neil will correct me if neccessary) quotes to try and make the post shorter, to try and cut bits off and bring the thing to a close. But if you read the things - really carefully (I can understand why you'd prefer not) - you'll see why it really would be difficult to say everything you want to say and do as you suggest.

3. There does seem to be a have-to-have-the-last-word syndrome. This makes the response and counter response appear endless and irritating to others though I am sure the two of you find it pretty stimulating (kidding).

Only in the sense that I don't want tooextracool to have the excuse that "you've admitted you were wrong on..." because that will give him the chance to jump on anything in future. If you were to read through a sample you'd lose count of the number of times he's said something along the lines of "you are wrong on everything". As long as I keep responding, he can only go on "as far as I'm concerned you're wrong - I have conceded nothing. Yes, that might seem childish. Understand that there are the types for whom it's not childish at all and is just in lifelong nature. tooextracool's favourite is "you twist your statements around" when, in fact, he has simply misinterpreted, deliberately or through rushed assumption, what I have said in the first place and has then proven something wrong which has never come from my keyboard. Because of that, he finds it hard to accept that all this work has been for nothing.

4. Its not always a question of keeping a thread alive. I think your arguments can sometimes 'kill' the thread for others.

Yes, true, but as I say, I really think there is something in the absences of tooextracool causing the boards to go to 5 or 6 active threads at most. It really does suggest that there are actually few threads that have any real discussion will in them.

5. There seems no stage at which one of you will realise that your argument is getting nowhere or that the other is not likely to come round to your point of view at which stage the debate should be given up, dont you think ?

Yes, I do think - trouble is, as I mentioned earlier, several things go around in circles you-wouldn't-believe-how-many-times before it can be certified that "you think this, I think that and absolutely nothing is going to change that".

If a discussion seems to be heading nowhere than to continue it is like talking to yourself, isnt it ? That is not the best thing to do, least of all in a public forum. Isnt it better to say you win or I rest my case and get out with a smile on the post (and on your face) rather than leave frowns or not-again-smiles on the faces of co-posters.

Hmm, might seem that way, but as I say above, it would strike me that tooextracool would simply say "so you were wrong on... and... and... and I'd have no grounds on which to say "no, I wasn't".

I repeat this is just an observation from someone who would genuinly like to be able to read the posts of you two and respond sometimes at least. Believe me today I dont and rarely ,if ever, get into a discussion with you guys. The loss is mine, I concede.

Regards

Oh, it is greatfully received, believe me. Any feedback is so. I really am starting to get the feeling that this is getting to the stage where the mods might feel compelled to ask us to tone it down, the complaints are coming from more and more quarters by the day. It all started with "How come..." (pskov) and has intensified since then.
It is for them to decide whether these threads are really putting a downing effect on the rest of the forum-members, but as I say, I really cannot see how it can make life especially difficult beyond bounds.

 

[Mister Wright]

Eh eh.

Hmm, not on my part. I simply don't see any sense in tooextracool's words (usually because they're normally a direct contradiction of something I'm trying to put across), and I'm trying to point-out what I'm trying to point-out.

I see what you're saying. It's tricky - there are times when I amalgamate (sp, Neil will correct me if neccessary) quotes to try and make the post shorter, to try and cut bits off and bring the thing to a close. But if you read the things - really carefully (I can understand why you'd prefer not) - you'll see why it really would be difficult to say everything you want to say and do as you suggest.

Only in the sense that I don't want tooextracool to have the excuse that "you've admitted you were wrong on..." because that will give him the chance to jump on anything in future. If you were to read through a sample you'd lose count of the number of times he's said something along the lines of "you are wrong on everything". As long as I keep responding, he can only go on "as far as I'm concerned you're wrong - I have conceded nothing. Yes, that might seem childish. Understand that there are the types for whom it's not childish at all and is just in lifelong nature. tooextracool's favourite is "you twist your statements around" when, in fact, he has simply misinterpreted, deliberately or through rushed assumption, what I have said in the first place and has then proven something wrong which has never come from my keyboard. Because of that, he finds it hard to accept that all this work has been for nothing.

Yes, true, but as I say, I really think there is something in the absences of tooextracool causing the boards to go to 5 or 6 active threads at most. It really does suggest that there are actually few threads that have any real discussion will in them.

Yes, I do think - trouble is, as I mentioned earlier, several things go around in circles you-wouldn't-believe-how-many-times before it can be certified that "you think this, I think that and absolutely nothing is going to change that".

Hmm, might seem that way, but as I say above, it would strike me that tooextracool would simply say "so you were wrong on... and... and... and I'd have no grounds on which to say "no, I wasn't".

Oh, it is greatfully received, believe me. Any feedback is so. I really am starting to get the feeling that this is getting to the stage where the mods might feel compelled to ask us to tone it down, the complaints are coming from more and more quarters by the day. It all started with "How come..." (pskov) and has intensified since then.
It is for them to decide whether these threads are really putting a downing effect on the rest of the forum-members, but as I say, I really cannot see how it can make life especially difficult beyond bounds.

Good. You now know what this thread is for. Glad you understand.

 

[Richard]

Eh, eh. First I thought "the irony of it" then it struck me - "no! - the non-irony of it!"

 

[biased indian]

 

[Sudeep]

amalgamate (sp, Neil will correct me if neccessary)

That won't be necessary.

 

[SJS]

Oh, it is greatfully received, believe me. Any feedback is so. I really am starting to get the feeling that this is getting to the stage where the mods might feel compelled to ask us to tone it down, the complaints are coming from more and more quarters by the day. It all started with "How come..." (pskov) and has intensified since then.
It is for them to decide whether these threads are really putting a downing effect on the rest of the forum-members, but as I say, I really cannot see how it can make life especially difficult beyond bounds.

Well I could go on and respond to each of your points (and maybe this will become another of those longwinded debates this thread was 'meant' for.

But I think, I made my point and being a thinking person that I am sure you are, I am sure you see something in what I say in which case I am glad to let it end here.

However, if I felt, you were not getting it anyway, I would stil prefer to get out of the argument and consider it a waste of my time (and forum space) to continue 'lecturing' which is what most persistent expressions of opinions start sounding like.

Thanks for the response

PS: Just a small point, if you feel that only the mods should be able to judge whether these threads are really putting a downing effect on the rest of the forum-members, you disappoint me a bit. The only people who can tell that truly effectively are those who ARE affected and they have spoken time and again.

PPS This is positively my last post on this thread

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

PPS This is positively my last post on this thread

Ah, but will it be your last post in this thread?

 

[Richard]

Well I could go on and respond to each of your points (and maybe this will become another of those longwinded debates this thread was 'meant' for.

But I think, I made my point and being a thinking person that I am sure you are, I am sure you see something in what I say in which case I am glad to let it end here.

Yes, I certainly do.

PS: Just a small point, if you feel that only the mods should be able to judge whether these threads are really putting a downing effect on the rest of the forum-members, you disappoint me a bit. The only people who can tell that truly effectively are those who ARE affected and they have spoken time and again.

True, maybe I should have added "significantly enough of a downing effect to ask us to stop".

PPS This is positively my last post on this thread

Hope you come back to read this.

 

[Craig]

Ah, but will it be your last post in this thread?

 

[Majin]

Murali is better than Warne, that drug taking money taker.

0:}

 

[Dydl]

Murali is also heaps younger than Warne and as good as him, he will probobly be better than Warne at some stage.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I figure this thread needs digging up after even an **official** thread gets flooded with more multiple mile-length mind-numbing posts.

 

[Richard]

This idiot wastes far more space than either of us ever have - and fortunately (unless someone quotes this) he won't even read this, because thank God I'm on his ignore list - something that, from what I've read, will stretch to every one of us before long.

 

[Swervy]

this is what a forum is about isnt it..discussion , whether long or short.
I personally enjoy reading TEC vs Richards postings, as I also enjoy having discussions (no matter how infuriating) with Richard..and normally I agree with TEC anyway ( Ithink we have disagreeed occassionally)

But this all part of the fun of using forums such as these..we should be appauding them really, keeps it interesting

 

[Richard]

Not if you're the fool behind this Scaly piscine, you shouldn't.
Glad to hear you enjoy ing against me. Good fun, isn't it?

 

[Scaly piscine]

this is what a forum is about isnt it..discussion , whether long or short.
I personally enjoy reading TEC vs Richards postings, as I also enjoy having discussions (no matter how infuriating) with Richard..and normally I agree with TEC anyway ( Ithink we have disagreeed occassionally)

But this all part of the fun of using forums such as these..we should be appauding them really, keeps it interesting

The thing is they have naff all to do with the thread they happen to rant incessantly on - this is especially pathetic on official threads such as England in Namibia... etc. If they want to rant at each other in the volume they do it in they can use a messenger. And not ever has scrolling through 15 consecutive mile long posts with 20 quotes each from the same 2 peons kept it interesting.

 

[Richard]

And of course, because he has said it is not interesting, it is now automatically not interesting.
Even though most people have said that these Richard-tooextracool debates are interesting in their eyes.