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The Most Selfish Players you've Seen

andyc

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'm not sure if that's a joke, deliberately obtuse or just plain stupid, but for the record if a team batting first in those days made anything over 280 99 times out of a hundred the match was over to all intents and purposes.
Firstly, there's no need to call Uppercut stupid, especially when he's stating what is surely a pretty valid point - there was no point in Gavaskar concluding that the score was impossibly high, because it had just been made. After South Africa conceded 434, they could've figured 'well, no one's ever made more than 400 before, what chance do we have of getting there,' and given up, but they didn't. India could well have pulled off a remarkable chase, but Gavaskar deemed it better to just get some 'time in the middle' in English conditions, like you said. Terribly selfish IMO.
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
No, but you completely needlessly attacked my comment on how it obviously wasn't impossible as "stupid", and if you weren't trying to imply that Gavaskar was somehow justified by the fact that everyone did that at the time, I'm not sure what point your condescending jab was trying to make.
I didn't say that everyone did it at the time, or even that anyone had ever done it before. At that time the side batting second never made that sort of score to win and Gavaskar considered it served his team better to spend time in the middle.
I misinterpreted your post as doubting what I'd written so I withdraw my reply to it.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Firstly, there's no need to call Uppercut stupid, especially when he's stating what is surely a pretty valid point - there was no point in Gavaskar concluding that the score was impossibly high, because it had just been made. After South Africa conceded 434, they could've figured 'well, no one's ever made more than 400 before, what chance do we have of getting there,' and given up, but they didn't. India could well have pulled off a remarkable chase, but Gavaskar deemed it better to just get some 'time in the middle' in English conditions, like you said. Terribly selfish IMO.
Thinkings differ during different time periods... Chasing 250 in three sessions was deemed impossible back then and teams were always prepared to play out the draw.. Why not say they were all selfish too? Coz a number of times, these teams DID lose while TRYING to play out the draw... Hindsight is a wonderful tool but it is a little too rich to rely on that and criticize ppl.


BTW, that innings of Gavaskar was stupid and I do consider it selfish, but NOT because he thought 335 was unattainable in that time period in 60 overs. I tend to go with SJS' thinking on why he did something like that and hence I feel it does deserve to compete in this thread.
 

Marto SA

Cricket Spectator
Mark Cosgrove, and he's selfish because he's never let us see how much talent he actually has. If he kept his mind on the job he would have played many Tests for Australia IMO. Maybe there's still time. Hopefully there is still time.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
It was nearly thirty years and 2000 ODI's later before a team batting second exceeded that England total so I can see Gavaskar's point - I don't recall him getting too much stick at the time but I may be wrong about that
If Gavaskar had continued batting at that rate, would 30 years have been enough?
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
I've never thought of that 36* as a particularly selfish knock, merely one of someone who sulked quite easily.
If you're prepared to put your petulant little sulk ahead of your own team's chances, ahead of the interests of the paying spectators, ahead of the interests of your team's millions of supporters at home, and ahead of the interests of the game of which you're supposedly a champion, I'd struggle to avoid the conclusion that you're being profoundly and staggeringly selfish.
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
None of the other Indian batsmen showed any great urgency so despite protestations to the contrary by management and skipper Venkat it looks like noone much cared, except the Indian supporters in the crowd, who made their views known
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
It was nearly thirty years and 2000 ODI's later before a team batting second exceeded that England total so I can see Gavaskar's point - I don't recall him getting too much stick at the time but I may be wrong about that
You are right that he did not get much flak. Which really means there wasn't any public outrage. The fact that there was next to no electronic media in India at that time is the main reason for that.

Amongst those who played the game there was shock and incomprehension. It must be remembered, however, that it was only India's third ever ODI having played a couple the previous summer in England. By the way, in its very first ODI game in 1974 India had been bowled out with 6.1 overs still left to be bowled for 265. That was almost 5 runs an over. So the 334, though really a big score, wasn't something India would have thought completely out of the realm of possibility.

By the way, in that first ODI of 1974, Brijesh Patel had scored a rollicking 82 at better than a run a ball. However in this partnership with Gavaskar (the 36 run epic) Patel scored 16 not out in 57 deliveries!

WE discussed the game endlessly back home and the general feeling was the same as we had for Test matches where we were used to defending for our lives most of the times, "If we cant win we are going to stick to the wicket and play for our honour and not get out." It was also fashionable in those early days for some cricketers to run down the limited overds game in the manner in which the twenty over format was disparaged till people realised what it did to their bank balances. "Its no test of cricketing skills" was the common refrain.

For the record, Indian manager Ramchand told the media "Gavaskar had considered the England score unobtainable and had taken practice."

This was nonsense of course because in case of a tie on points teams in the froup stage the net run rate was to be taken into account so India had everything to play for and try and score the maximum runs even if they were facing 500 runs!

No. There was no honour in holding on to their wickets, playing for dear life, utilising the time for practice or to show contempt for the game. Tony Lewis wrote in his Diary of the Season....
" I suppose I have had as close a look into the Indian mind as any cricketer, but I would never risk a guess at Gavaskar's motives. His cussedness could quite easily have been formed before the match by matters of selection, his hotel bedroom or even the nightly meal allowance! Whatever the motives were he had no right to force them on the sponsors who have put £100,000 into cricket this summer, or on the 16,274 spectators who paid £19,000 to watch.

Dejected Indians ran onto the field, pathetically pleading with him to die fighting. Their flags hung limp in their hands. It was a perverse moment of self-inflicted shame."​
 

Uppercut

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That's an incredible quote. Never knew Tony Lewis was so gifted in the field of dramatic writing.
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
You are right that he did not get much flak. Which really means there wasn't any public outrage. The fact that there was next to no electronic media in India at that time is the main reason for that.

Amongst those who played the game there was shock and incomprehension. It must be remembered, however, that it was only India's third ever ODI having played a couple the previous summer in England. By the way, in its very first ODI game in 1974 India had been bowled out with 6.1 overs still left to be bowled for 265. That was almost 5 runs an over. So the 334, though really a big score, wasn't something India would have thought completely out of the realm of possibility.

By the way, in that first ODI of 1974, Brijesh Patel had scored a rollicking 82 at better than a run a ball. However in this partnership with Gavaskar (the 36 run epic) Patel scored 16 not out in 57 deliveries!

WE discussed the game endlessly back home and the general feeling was the same as we had for Test matches where we were used to defending for our lives most of the times, "If we cant win we are going to stick to the wicket and play for our honour and not get out." It was also fashionable in those early days for some cricketers to run down the limited overds game in the manner in which the twenty over format was disparaged till people realised what it did to their bank balances. "Its no test of cricketing skills" was the common refrain.

For the record, Indian manager Ramchand told the media "Gavaskar had considered the England score unobtainable and had taken practice."

This was nonsense of course because in case of a tie on points teams in the froup stage the net run rate was to be taken into account so India had everything to play for and try and score the maximum runs even if they were facing 500 runs!

No. There was no honour in holding on to their wickets, playing for dear life, utilising the time for practice or to show contempt for the game. Tony Lewis wrote in his Diary of the Season....
" I suppose I have had as close a look into the Indian mind as any cricketer, but I would never risk a guess at Gavaskar's motives. His cussedness could quite easily have been formed before the match by matters of selection, his hotel bedroom or even the nightly meal allowance! Whatever the motives were he had no right to force them on the sponsors who have put £100,000 into cricket this summer, or on the 16,274 spectators who paid £19,000 to watch.

Dejected Indians ran onto the field, pathetically pleading with him to die fighting. Their flags hung limp in their hands. It was a perverse moment of self-inflicted shame."​
The ironic thing is that the BBC received a great number of complaints from the TV viewing public for not showing much of this match. In those days matches were played similtaneously and the coverage shared between the two matches on one channel. As this match was so one-sided from very early on the BBC concentrated on the Australia v Pakistan match that was taking place at the same time. A lot of England supporters were upset at not being able to watch the England match no matter how it unfolded.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Kallis is an absolutely hideous call.. So i take it absolutely nobody would want him in their teams, thats good then..

Afridi, Cronje and Sreesanth are three players that stand out for me..
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Is it too late to suggest that Boycs was the most selfish player I didn't see from 1974 to 1977?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
If you're prepared to put your petulant little sulk ahead of your own team's chances, ahead of the interests of the paying spectators, ahead of the interests of your team's millions of supporters at home, and ahead of the interests of the game of which you're supposedly a champion, I'd struggle to avoid the conclusion that you're being profoundly and staggeringly selfish.
In that way I suppose you're right, but as with Cronje it's not the typical classical "putting your own achievement ahead of the team's interests" sort of selfishness.

If Gavaskar had gone on to play a match-deciding innings against New Zealand and insisted profusely that had he not spent the time in the middle against England then I can't avoid the conclusion that the 36* would be placed by many as a masterstroke. I don't think there's one hard-and-fast rule, but you're right that in putting his own petulance (which I don't think too many have ever disputed he was indeed displaying in that knock) ahead of anything else he was indeed exhibiting selfishness.
 

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