The incredible fall of Australia....

[slippyslip]

Thanks for trying to tell me what "you English people think", but, predictably, you're wrong. In my previous post, in addition to Warne and McGrath, I mentioned Gilchrist, Langer, Martyn and Hayden. A clue perhaps that I was aware that Australian success over that period extended beyond just those two?

I thought it was obvious due to the context that I was talking about the bowling.

And its impossible for someone who isnt English to listen to English commentators and speak to English fans? Or read English writers views? Maybe someone should invent this computer thing that allows people to communicate across the globe instantly.

Anyhow you seem to disagree with my statement that, over the period 1987-2007, Warne and McGrath were obviously your two best bowlers. So who would you say were your two best bowlers over that period if not them? (Or were you just trying to make a pedantic point that they hadn't both played over that entire period? In which case, it's the worst point you've made yet.)

Warne and McGrath didnt play in the 1989 or 1990/91 series, yet somehow Australia won those series! Was it magic? Infact, in those 2 series England failed to win one test.

McGrath did nothing in the two tests in 1994/95 and only had an impact by 1997 - after Australia had won the previous 4 Ashes series.

Warne only averaged 30 in the 2006/07 and yet Australia won.

Too bad Australian bowling didnt have guys like McDermott, Hughes, Stuart Clark, Jason Gillespie, Stuart MacGill during this era. All of which too over 200 test wickets except Clark is still going. And I wish Australia had someone called Brett Lee, who would have (if he existed) taken over 300 test wickets despite playing crap against England.

Nope, it was ALL Warne and McGrath.

 

[zaremba]

Warne and McGrath didnt play in the 1989 or 1990/91 series, yet somehow Australia won those series! Was it magic? Infact, in those 2 series England failed to win one test.

McGrath did nothing in the two tests in 1994/95 and only had an impact by 1997 - after Australia had won the previous 4 Ashes series.

Warne only averaged 30 in the 2006/07 and yet Australia won.

Too bad Australian bowling didnt have guys like McDermott, Hughes, Stuart Clark, Jason Gillespie, Stuart MacGill during this era. All of which too over 200 test wickets except Clark is still going. And I wish Australia had someone called Brett Lee, who would have (if he existed) taken over 300 test wickets despite playing crap against England.

Nope, it was ALL Warne and McGrath.

I never said it was all Warne and McGrath. If you read what was written on "this computer thing that allows people to communicate across the globe instantly" a bit more carefully, you would understand that. Warne's Test debut was in 1991/92 (I was there) and McGrath's was later, so it's fairly self-evident that others must have been involved somewhere down the line.

Anyhow I see you've not answered my question. I've said that Warne and McGrath were obviously your two best bowlers over the period from 1987-2007. You chose to argue about that. So my question is, who do you say were your best bowlers over that period?

 

[Flem274*]

Why, when an underdog has just done something rather special and we want to discuss what the favourite is going to do now, does some useless **** come on and make a dick of himself?

 

[slippyslip]

My point is that your claim that no one in NZ cares about this test loss (remember? You posted it further up the thread):



... is inherently wrong.






Could you be any more condescending if you tried? I know more about rugby union than you will ever forget.

This is hardly trying. Well, I was hardly the greatest rugby player I played during high school and my early years at uni. Hell, even had a jolly tour of England, Wales and Scotland in year 12. So I'm guessing you're a former All Black?

Yep. Was there last month in fact. And totally agree that they're fanatical. Still doesn't make your initial claim any more correct.

Its the reason I avoid Melbourne during the winter (besides the weather). But even if the dolts in Melbourne can give time to test cricket when Australia is losing during the winter I can't see why New Zealanders cant either.

Fact is, rugby union is bigger than cricket in NZ. No denying that, but you made a big bad bold statement which you, quite frankly, cannot back up.

But my point is that even though its winter and that the major football codes are in full swing people can still care about test cricket here.

And can you provide me with the crowd figures for test cricket in NZ compared to ODI and twenty20 cricket. Thanks. Or are you going to tell me that test cricket gets the same crowds as ODI cricket in NZ? Whenever I see a test match in NZ the stadium is empty. But the ODI matches seem to have full houses or near to it.

Could it be because no one, not even the NZ team, care about test cricket anymore?

And can you explain to my why NZ are so pathetic at test cricket but pretty darn good at the short form? You know, how you almost made the semi-finals of the 2007 twenty/20 world cup and almost made the semis of the recent Twenty20 world cup or how even though you got smashed in the recent test series against Australia you managed to go 2-2 in the 50 over series and were looking like you were going to win the final game?

 

[Flem274*]

*yawn*

 

[Smudge]

And can you provide me with the crowd figures for test cricket in NZ compared to ODI and twenty20 cricket. Thanks. Or are you going to tell me that test cricket gets the same crowds as ODI cricket in NZ? Whenever I see a test match in NZ the stadium is empty. But the ODI matches seem to have full houses or near to it.

Could it be because no one, not even the NZ team, care about test cricket anymore?

I'm sorry, but you refuse to move from your point that no-one (an exaggeration if ever I saw one) which is completely wrong, so I don't see the point in discussing this with you further. Good day.

 

[Flem274*]

A challenge for Slippyslip: Go tell the NZ team they don't care about test cricket. No *****ing out and telling someone that won't hit you like Martin either, go tell at least one of McCullum, Ryder (drunk version) or Oram.

 

[tooextracool]

Ask Matt Hayden if the umpiring was good during the series in India. When umpiring decisions go against India they scream like little girls for years on end but when the umpiring goes in favour of India they are very quiet. India is like that loud, obnoxious person in the shop who gets served first because he is the loudest. They're the Americans of the cricketing world.

Cant agree with this more, but the point is that that India were on the wrong side of some seriously poor decisions that series and that cost them an entire game at Sydney. Australia almost certainly were lucky to win that game and probably that series despite Clarke's feats.

India have not beaten South Africa or Australia at home. End of story. And beating New Zealand at home in a test series these days is like taking candy from a baby. Australia last test tour of NZ was 3-0. When I was a kid beating NZ at home was near impossible.

Errr your point? Beating Australia and South Africa at home is not a prerequisite to be number 2 in the world. Australia went 9 something years without beating India or Sri Lanka in the subcontinent and no one refuted their number 1 standing. The facts are that India is unbeatable at home and they have beaten most in their paths away. Perhaps they do need to beat Australia or SA to be number 1 but they almost certainly dont need to do so to be number 2.

And for as for your argument "India has done everything asked of it". If Australia go undefeated for the next two years will you say "Australia is number 1 because they have done everything they've been asked"? Nope. You'll say "Australia isnt number 1 because they've been playing weak teams.

Ahhh, the double standards of people.

I never said India is number 1, I said they were number 2. They dont have a stake for number 1 until they beat the number 1 team. Australia cant be number 2 because they lost to India away and ENGLAND FFS.

And England's bowling wasnt much better. But they did enough to win. And it doesnt matter how badly England played at Headingly, its only 1 loss. It doesnt matter if you lose by an innings a 7462876542354528364238674523 runs. A test counts for only 1 result.

If England's bowling wasnt much better and their batting was disgraceful then that only goes to show how ordinary an outfit Australia are at the moment. If anyone thinks Australia are anything above a middle of the road side(likewise England ATM), they are seriously kidding themselves.

And if there werent 4 doctored pitches Australia would ahve done better. Or should I remind you of Ganguly's child like fits when he saw green on the 2nd test pitch in 2004 and demanded a joke pitch, calling it a dust bowl would be an insult to dust bowls, be prepared for the 3rd test. You know, when Michael Clarke took 6 wickets in an innings against the best players of spin in the world.

This has absolutely no relevance to the fact that Australia had about as much of a hope of winning a test that series as I do of winning the lottery.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I don't think the fall is that amazing really. We are a team that is worse than the one that lost in 2005 (quite a bit worse) playing an English team that is worse than 2005 and it was like watching a cartoon where two people are trying to grab wet soap and it keeps flying out of their hands until one of them finally manages to grab it.

In the end England win The Ashes and we're left wet and shaky with our pants down in a prison shower.

Australia were always going to be more inconsistent than they were with McGrath, Warne, Gilchrist, Hayden etc in the team. So far they have been. We've gone from having players with years of experience in all sorts of conditions around the world to guys who are yet to play a game in some countries. I think 3 is reflective of where we are in world cricket at the moment overall, but 4 is obviously not too far off the mark.

We'll have some good series and some bad series until these guys establish themselves in the international game and there'll be a bit of shuffling done to the team too I'd expect.

 

[Pigeon]

Lol @ whingeing by Slippyslip. He is so confused that he is blaming Ganguly's apparently childish tactics in 2004 and bemoaning "doctored" pitches of 2009 in one go. Way to go mate. As Zaremba said, these are reactions which make it all the more enjoyable to beat Australia.

 

[pasag]

The decline stuff can go in this thread
The post-mortem stuff can go in this thread
The future stuff can go in this thread

Closed.