The Importance of Ponting and Hayden

[GIMH]

Cricket Web - Features: The importance of Ponting and Hayden

Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne are usually cited as the key figures in Australia's now ended era of Test dominance but in their own way Matthew Hayden and Ricky Ponting were equally as significant.

by Marco Trevisiol

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Marco Trevisiol

Who's he?

 

[GIMH]

One of our features team, doesn't really post on the forums

 

[Ikki]

Good article, thanks. Great stat that: 30 games, 25 wins, 5 draws and 0 losses when Warne, McGrath, Ponting and Hayden played together.

 

[GIMH]

I thought you'd enjoy this one mate

 

[BoyBrumby]

Think the jury's still out on Ponting's loss of form as to whether it's merely a dip or an actual decline. Still only 34, despite having been around since Adam was a lad. Hayden was approximately the same age after the 2005 Ashes and he turned around what looked like a terminal decline to be the most effective opener for another couple of years.

Interesting read anyway; Marco has a nice concise style of writing.

 

[subshakerz]

Good article, thanks. Great stat that: 30 games, 25 wins, 5 draws and 0 losses when Warne, McGrath, Ponting and Hayden played together.

That last 30 games when they played together. I recall them losing in India in 2001.

 

[bullseye]

Their are actually five Prominent figures that played a leading role in Australia's dominance in the recent past.

They are :

Batting : Hayden, Ponting and Gilchrist.

Bowling: McGraw and Warne.

If you look at the performance either one or more of these guys won the day for Australia.

Australia'a present dip is result of the vacuum created by Hayden, Gilchrist, McGraw and Warne. It will take sometme to fill the gap.

Also Ponting despite being a brilliant batsman may not have been in the same class as Steve Waugh.

 

[trapol]

^^^^^^ WHAT????^^^^^^

That has to be one of the dumbest things ive ever heard. Yes i know people are entitled to their opinion but come on.

You are quite possibly talking about the greatest batsman ever here and whilst Waugh was fantastic as well when Pontings record is all said and done it will never be beaten

Conspiracy theory here: Tendulkar will keep playing as long as he can so that Ponting will not take the centuries/most runs records off him

It does irk me that Ponting doesnt get the respect he deserves purely/possibly because he acts like a chop on the field at times

 

[bullseye]

^^^^^^ WHAT????^^^^^^

That has to be one of the dumbest things ive ever heard. Yes i know people are entitled to their opinion but come on.

You are quite possibly talking about the greatest batsman ever here and whilst Waugh was fantastic as well when Pontings record is all said and done it will never be beaten

Conspiracy theory here: Tendulkar will keep playing as long as he can so that Ponting will not take the centuries/most runs records off him

It does irk me that Ponting doesnt get the respect he deserves purely/possibly because he acts like a chop on the field at times

Ponting does have an enviable record as a Captain . But recent losses against South Africa and England has dented his record and a question mark has been asked by a few Ex Australians if he is now the right choice of Captain in tests. They are actually thinking of Simon Katich who is believed to be tough customer .I don't think under Waugh Australia ever dipped as low as 4th in ICC ranking which is their current status and which is unimaginiable.

BTW I am a fan of Ponti. But one has to accept reality. Their is no respite from that.

 

[trapol]

captaincy yes is a different story, Personally i dont believe he has been a good captain at any stage. A blind man could captain a team with Warne/McGrath in it especially when, as mentioned in this thread, you add all time greats like Hayden/Gilchrist and so on...

But as a player purely he is phenominal...

 

[Uppercut]

Think the jury's still out on Ponting's loss of form as to whether it's merely a dip or an actual decline. Still only 34, despite having been around since Adam was a lad. Hayden was approximately the same age after the 2005 Ashes and he turned around what looked like a terminal decline to be the most effective opener for another couple of years.

Interesting read anyway; Marco has a nice concise style of writing.

I think the pressure of captaincy is affecting his batting now that he's managing a much younger team in the field. Sometimes he just doesn't seem mentally there to me, like in the first innings at the Oval.

 

[Zinzan]

^^^^^^ WHAT????^^^^^^

That has to be one of the dumbest things ive ever heard. Yes i know people are entitled to their opinion but come on.

You are quite possibly talking about the greatest batsman ever here and whilst Waugh was fantastic as well when Pontings record is all said and done it will never be beaten

Conspiracy theory here: Tendulkar will keep playing as long as he can so that Ponting will not take the centuries/most runs records off him

It does irk me that Ponting doesnt get the respect he deserves purely/possibly because he acts like a chop on the field at times

That has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard, possibly the greatest batsman ever? Not stretching the true a little here are you ?

 

[bullseye]

captaincy yes is a different story, Personally i dont believe he has been a good captain at any stage. A blind man could captain a team with Warne/McGrath in it especially when, as mentioned in this thread, you add all time greats like Hayden/Gilchrist and so on...

But as a player purely he is phenominal...

He is certainly one of the greatest batsman of all time.

His one man demolition of the Indian Bowling attack in the 2003 World Cup Final is one of the all time Batting classic.

 

[_Chandan]

^^^^^^ WHAT????^^^^^^

That has to be one of the dumbest things ive ever heard. Yes i know people are entitled to their opinion but come on.

You are quite possibly talking about the greatest batsman ever here and whilst Waugh was fantastic as well when Pontings record is all said and done it will never be beaten

Sorry. I don't agree with your statement about possibly the greatest batsman ever. He is not even third best in Australia alone!

 

[silentstriker]

Cricket Web - Features: The importance of Ponting and Hayden

Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne are usually cited as the key figures in Australia's now ended era of Test dominance but in their own way Matthew Hayden and Ricky Ponting were equally as significant.

by Marco Trevisiol

Disagree. Bowlers are generally always more important, and when you're talking about all time great bowlers, even more so. With that said, and I'd put Gilchrist in there, the Ponting-Hayden-Gilchrist batting lineup more than once turned the game, so I am not suggesting that they weren't as useful. A good analogy in India would be Sachin vs. Kumble. Sachin, while widely considered to be the better player, still wasn't nearly as important to Indian victories as Kumble was. It wasn't even close. Bowlers win matches.

 

[subshakerz]

Disagree. Bowlers are generally always more important, and when you're talking about all time great bowlers, even more so. With that said, and I'd put Gilchrist in there, the Ponting-Hayden-Gilchrist batting lineup more than once turned the game, so I am not suggesting that they weren't as useful. A good analogy in India would be Sachin vs. Kumble. Sachin, while widely considered to be the better player, still wasn't nearly as important to Indian victories as Kumble was. It wasn't even close. Bowlers win matches.

I agree. In fact, India had a batting lineup in the last few years that was comparable to Australia's, with Sehwag, Gambir, Tendulkar, Dravid, and Laxman. But they were nowhere near successful given their bowling.

 

[Jono]

Conspiracy theory here: Tendulkar will keep playing as long as he can so that Ponting will not take the centuries/most runs records off him

Not really a conspiracy theory is it? What's wrong with him doing that?

If he's scoring runs and centuries at a rate that Ponting can't catch up to him, I dare say that Tendulkar would probably be earning his spot as one of the best 6 test batsmen in India.

It does irk me that Ponting doesnt get the respect he deserves purely/possibly because he acts like a chop on the field at times

The media were calling him 2nd to Bradman during his pomp of 2005-06.

 

[Dissector]

As SS says, bowlers are more important than batsmen in tests so Hayden and Ponting weren't as important as McGrath/Warne. In ODI's it's the other way round so Hayden, Ponting and Gilchrist were the key to Australia's success.

 

[Burgey]

Disagree. Bowlers are generally always more important, and when you're talking about all time great bowlers, even more so. With that said, and I'd put Gilchrist in there, the Ponting-Hayden-Gilchrist batting lineup more than once turned the game, so I am not suggesting that they weren't as useful. A good analogy in India would be Sachin vs. Kumble. Sachin, while widely considered to be the better player, still wasn't nearly as important to Indian victories as Kumble was. It wasn't even close. Bowlers win matches.

Still wating for your explanation of how Australia could possibly have lost at The Oval given we had 4 quicks, they played a specialist spinner and pace is always > spin .