The ICC Super Series

[Blaze]

The only reason I can think that you think the current AUS team is about the 9th or 10th best ever is because you are trying to attention seek and trying to have controversial views. Because I honestly can't think of any other logical reasons

 

[Richard]

Its only my opinion but I think your judgement of cricketdom is a fair bit out of whack and very much influenced by something even though you claim its not nationalistic bias.

It's influenced by the wish to judge every player on his merits, not the shortcomings of the opposition.
As far as possible, of course - because you can only beat what's in front of you.

 

[Richard]

The only reason I can think that you think the current AUS team is about the 9th or 10th best ever is because you are trying to attention seek and trying to have controversial views. Because I honestly can't think of any other logical reasons

I can - looking at the players concerned, and sometimes calling on my ability to make judgements having seen lots of their careers.

 

[Scallywag]

It's influenced by the wish to judge every player on his merits, not the shortcomings of the opposition.
As far as possible, of course - because you can only beat what's in front of you.

So what do you think of the statement that a champion team will beat a team of champions.

 

[Richard]

Load of rubbish.
If a team of champions plays to their potential they'll flatten any team of mediocre players who get on well with each other.
That was the problem with Pakistan of 1999 - they had so many fantastic players, but they fluctuated so often.

 

[Scallywag]

That was the problem with Pakistan of 1999 - they had so many fantastic players, but they fluctuated so often.

This Pakistani team is the one you just stated are better than the current Australian side.

So a fluctuating side that has many fantastic players is better than a solid team performing consistantly over a period of years.

 

[Richard]

The players were better.
Without players you have no team.
A team is only what the players in it make it.
It is nothing more than a collection of players.

 

[Jono]

The fact that you think the Pakistan test team of 1999 is better than the current Australian team makes it extremely hard for me to take any of your other posts seriously.

There's a reason they were beaten 3-0 by Australia, and that wasn't even the current Australian team either, which is better than the Australian team of 1999.

 

[Scallywag]

The players were better.
Without players you have no team.
A team is only what the players in it make it.
It is nothing more than a collection of players.

Thats what everybody says Richard, Australia are a team that has the players that make the team unbeatable whereas the Pakistani team was just a collection of players. Even though I dispute the fact that the Pakistani team contained more talent than the current Australian side.

 

[JASON]

Heaps of threads on World XI's. Really far too early to predict the team

Agree its too early to predict .

But of your Team -

Here what The Rest of the World XI might be:

Stephen Fleming * - skipper
Virender Sehwag or Strauss (Depending on his ashes performance)
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Brain Lara
Jaques Kallis or Andrew Flintoff
Kumar Sangakara + - Keeper
Shaun Pollock
Shoaib Akhtar
Steve Harmison (also on ashes performance) Shane Bond (if he comes back and bowls has quickly and has well as before) or even Vaas or Pathan or Ntini
Anil Kumbel or Daniel Vettori (Extra spinner due to nature of SCG pitch)
Muttiah Muralitharan

On current form, (after Aussie series) Stephen Fleming is unlikely to get into the World XI.

My Team on current form


Gayle
Sehwag
Tendulkar (although some question marks over the great man's fitness may come into it!)
Lara (Skipper)
Kallis
Sangakkara
Flintoff
Pollock
Vettori
Akhtar (Vaas/Pathan as alternates)
Murali

 

[aussie]

aussie

chris gayle mate jeese u got to be kidding, he wouldn't get 10

 

[JASON]

Chris Gayle -

ONE-DAY INTERNATIONALS
(including 01/02/2005)
M I NO Runs HS Ave SR 100 50 Ct St
Batting & Fielding 113 110 6 3973 153* 38.20 77.74 9 23 49 0

O M R W Ave BBI 4w 5w SR Econ
Bowling 610.3 24 2852 95 30.02 5-46 3 1 38.5 4.67

Mat I NO Runs HS1 HS2 HS3 Ave 100 50 0

unfiltered (Overall) 113 110 6 3973 153* 152* 152 38.20 9 23 9
filtered (v Australia) 10 10 0 303 84 60 43 30.30 0 2 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Runs Pos Dismissal I R Match

37 1 caught 2 L 1st ODI v Aus in WI 2002/03 at Kingston [2011]
28 1 caught wk 1 L 2nd ODI v Aus in WI 2002/03 at Kingston [2013]
43 1 caught 2 L 3rd ODI v Aus in WI 2002/03 at Gros Islet [2016]
84 1 lbw 2 L 4th ODI v Aus in WI 2002/03 at Port of Spain [2018]
5 1 lbw 1 W 5th ODI v Aus in WI 2002/03 at Port of Spain [2019]
18 1 caught wk 2 W 6th ODI v Aus in WI 2002/03 at St George's [2020]
60 1 bowled 2 W 7th ODI v Aus in WI 2002/03 at St George's [2021]
0 1 lbw 2 L VB Series 1 v Aus in Aus 2004/05 at Melbourne (d/n) [2204]
26 1 bowled 1 N VB Series 4 v Aus in Aus 2004/05 at Brisbane (d/n) [2208]
2 1 caught wk 2 L VB Series 6 v Aus in Aus 2004/05 at Adelaide (d/n) [2212]

Stephen Fleming

Mat I NO Runs HS1 HS2 HS3 Ave 100 50 0

unfiltered (overall) 235 226 19 6648 134* 116* 115* 32.11 6 38 10
filtered (v Australia) 37 36 3 1051 116* 111* 82 31.84 2 6 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Runs Pos Dismissal I *+ R Match

35 4 caught 1 L Aust'Asia 4 v Aus in UAE 1993/94 at Sharjah [907]
53 4 caught 2 L NZ Cent. 4 v Aus in NZ 1994/95 at Auckland [978]
0 4 caught wk 1 L NZ Cent. F v Aus in NZ 1994/95 at Auckland [983]
8 4 caught 1 L World Cup QF v Aus in Ind 1995/96 at Chennai (d/n) [1080]
61 3 caught 1 * L C&U Ser. 3 v Aus in Aus 1997/98 at Adelaide (d/n) [1256]
6 4 caught 1 * L C&U Ser. 6 v Aus in Aus 1997/98 at Melbourne (d/n) [1265]
28 4 caught 2 * L C&U Ser. 9 v Aus in Aus 1997/98 at Sydney (d/n) [1275]
116* 4 not out 2 * W C&U Ser. 12 v Aus in Aus 1997/98 at Melbourne [1281]
2 4 caught 1 * L 1st ODI v Aus in NZ 1997/98 at Christchurch (d/n) [1290]
3 4 run out 2 * L 2nd ODI v Aus in NZ 1997/98 at Wellington [1291]
111* 4 not out 2 * W 3rd ODI v Aus in NZ 1997/98 at Napier (d/n) [1292]
13 4 caught wk 1 * W 4th ODI v Aus in NZ 1997/98 at Auckland [1293]
59 4 bowled 1 * L CCC (UAE) 2 v Aus in UAE 1997/98 at Sharjah (d/n) [1320]
20 3 caught 1 * L CCC (UAE) 5 v Aus in UAE 1997/98 at Sharjah (d/n) [1324]
9 4 bowled 2 * W World Cup 10 v Aus in Eng 1999 at Cardiff [1452]
TDNB - - - * N 1st ODI v Aus in NZ 1999/00 at Wellington (WS) (d/n) [1563]
14 3 caught 1 * L 2nd ODI v Aus in NZ 1999/00 at Auckland (d/n) [1565]
24 3 caught 2 * L 3rd ODI v Aus in NZ 1999/00 at Dunedin (d/n) [1568]
82 3 caught 2 * L 4th ODI v Aus in NZ 1999/00 at Christchurch (d/n) [1569]
10 3 caught 1 * L 5th ODI v Aus in NZ 1999/00 at Napier (d/n) [1570]
60* 4 not out 2 * W 6th ODI v Aus in NZ 1999/00 at Auckland (d/n) [1571]
1 3 caught 1 * W VB Series 1 v Aus in Aus 2001/02 at Melbourne (d/n) [1783]
13 5 stumped 1 * W VB Series 8 v Aus in Aus 2001/02 at Adelaide (d/n) [1796]
50 3 run out 1 * L VB Series 10 v Aus in Aus 2001/02 at Melbourne (d/n) [1799]
12 1 lbw 2 * L ICC KO 4 v Aus in SL 2002/03 at Colombo (SSC) [1877]
48 2 caught wk 2 * L World Cup Su v Aus in SA 2002/03 at Port Elizabeth [1986]
2 2 caught wk 1 * L TVS (Ind) 3 v Aus in Ind 2003/04 at Faridabad [2053]
40 2 caught 1 * L TVS (Ind) 5 v Aus in Ind 2003/04 at Poona [2055]
29 2 caught 2 * L TVS (Ind) 7 v Aus in Ind 2003/04 at Guwahati [2058]
29 1 caught 1 * L ICC KO 9 v Aus in Eng 2004 at The Oval [2176]
0 1 lbw 2 * W CH Trophy 1 v Aus in Aus 2004/05 at Melbourne (Docklands (d/n) [2196]
34 1 lbw 2 * L CH Trophy 2 v Aus in Aus 2004/05 at Sydney (d/n) [2198]
5 1 lbw 2 * L 1st ODI v Aus in NZ 2004/05 at Wellington (WS) (d/n) [2227]
1 1 caught wk 2 * L 2nd ODI v Aus in NZ 2004/05 at Christchurch (d/n) [2228]
1 1 bowled 2 * L 3rd ODI v Aus in NZ 2004/05 at Auckland (d/n) [2230]
37 1 caught 1 * L 4th ODI v Aus in NZ 2004/05 at Wellington [2232]
35 2 caught wk 2 * L 5th ODI v Aus in NZ 2004/05 at Napier [2234]


There's little difference between the two batting wise , but Gayle is also a useful ODI bowler !!

 

[aussie]

aussie

yeah he is a useful ODI bowler but i looking at openers for the super test he wont get picked in front of fleming

 

[JASON]

As I said before, there is little between them. Gayle 9 centuries and 28 fifties in 113 ODIs v Fleming 6 centuries 38 fifties in 235 ODIS (not all as an opener ) - very little between them even as opener .

However when you analyse Fleming's stats as an opener - things look pretty bad for Fleming !!

Mat I NO Runs HS1 HS2 HS3 Ave 100 50 0

unfiltered 235 226 19 6648 134* 116* 115* 32.11 6 38 10
filtered (V Australia as opener) 13 13 0 273 48 40 37 21.00 0 0 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Runs Pos Dismissal I *+ R Match

12 1 lbw 2 * L ICC KO 4 v Aus in SL 2002/03 at Colombo (SSC) [1877]
48 2 caught wk 2 * L World Cup Su v Aus in SA 2002/03 at Port Elizabeth [1986]
2 2 caught wk 1 * L TVS (Ind) 3 v Aus in Ind 2003/04 at Faridabad [2053]
40 2 caught 1 * L TVS (Ind) 5 v Aus in Ind 2003/04 at Poona [2055]
29 2 caught 2 * L TVS (Ind) 7 v Aus in Ind 2003/04 at Guwahati [2058]
29 1 caught 1 * L ICC KO 9 v Aus in Eng 2004 at The Oval [2176]
0 1 lbw 2 * W CH Trophy 1 v Aus in Aus 2004/05 at Melbourne (Docklands (d/n) [2196]
34 1 lbw 2 * L CH Trophy 2 v Aus in Aus 2004/05 at Sydney (d/n) [2198]
5 1 lbw 2 * L 1st ODI v Aus in NZ 2004/05 at Wellington (WS) (d/n) [2227]
1 1 caught wk 2 * L 2nd ODI v Aus in NZ 2004/05 at Christchurch (d/n) [2228]
1 1 bowled 2 * L 3rd ODI v Aus in NZ 2004/05 at Auckland (d/n) [2230]
37 1 caught 1 * L 4th ODI v Aus in NZ 2004/05 at Wellington [2232]
35 2 caught wk 2 * L 5th ODI v Aus in NZ 2004/05 at Napier [2234]


As you can see above his performance as an opener (these are the only games where he opened ) against Australia is pretty bad. And looking at these Stats above Gayle's stats look heaps better.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

South Africa 1969\70
Australia 1948
Australia 1934
West Indies 1979
West Indies 1957
England at some point in the mid-1950s
Pakistan 1999 (if they'd been anyone but Pakistanis they'd have broken all records)
South Africa 1998\99
That's about all I can do off the top of my head.

Oh please.

You could make a case for Australia 1948 and West Indies 1979 (although 84 was probably a better team), and I suppose at the outside maybe England in the 50s, but the rest are ridiculous. South Africa 1969/70 played one dominant series and then were banned, so we will never know how good they were. West Indies 1957 were a great side but were far from dominant even in their own era. Pakistan in 1999 were an extremely average side with some quality individuals, and they were accordingly thrashed by Australia 3-0, when Australia were far from their best. South Africa 1998/99 is frankly a joke, they wouldn't make the top 25 let alone the top 10.

There have only been two sides before this Australian team that have so dominated cricket, and you cannot judge players on first class records or what might have been, so South Africa are out. England in the 50s would have to make the top 5 as well.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

So what do you think of the statement that a champion team will beat a team of champions.

The complication is that this Australian side is both.

 

[shaka]

Vettori IMO would be in ahead of Kumble based on the first side selected in this thread. the fact that he seems to bowl better against Australia makes it a better decision.

 

[Jono]

Vettori IMO would be in ahead of Kumble based on the first side selected in this thread. the fact that he seems to bowl better against Australia makes it a better decision.

I assume you mean ODIs?

If so, considering (going by the last few months) that Kumble isn't even the first choice spinner for the Indian ODI team, it does seem unlikely that he'll make the ROW XI ODI team.

Tests however, he could very well be side by side with Murali. Again its too early to tell, but in tests I have no doubt in my mind that currently (I stress currently) he is ahead of Vettori.

 

[shaka]

It will be interesting to see how he goes in the tests against Australia.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

It will be interesting to see how he goes in the tests against Australia.

My guess is it will be the same as last time - he will bowl with a lot of heart and put it in the right spots and probably be his sides number one wicket taker by a mile, but still won't make it a competitive series or do enough to displace Kumble.