The Great Allrounders in County Cricket

[Coronis]

Peak Botham in County

77-81
59 matches 83 innings 2976 @ 38.15 5 tons 15 fifties 59 catches
59 matches 226 @ 24.79 12 5’fers 1 10’fer

Peak Botham in England

77-81
24 matches 35 innings 1100 @ 32.35 5 tons 2 fifties 31 catches
24 matches 42 innings 115 @ 21.19 11 5’fers 2 10’fers

Peak Botham Away

77-82 (end of 81/82 series in India)
23 matches 37 innings 1317 @ 37.62 4 tons 7 fifties 27 catches
23 matches 38 innings 104 @ 24.10 7 5’fers 2 10’fers

 

[shortpitched713]

Peak Botham in County

77-81
59 matches 83 innings 2976 @ 38.15 5 tons 15 fifties 59 catches
59 matches 226 @ 24.79 12 5’fers 1 10’fer

Peak Botham in England

77-81
24 matches 35 innings 1100 @ 32.35 5 tons 2 fifties 31 catches
24 matches 42 innings 115 @ 21.19 11 5’fers 2 10’fers

Peak Botham Away

77-82 (end of 81/82 series in India)
23 matches 37 innings 1317 @ 37.62 4 tons 7 fifties 27 catches
23 matches 38 innings 104 @ 24.10 7 5’fers 2 10’fers

Yeah, I have to conclude somewhat that Botham's bowling seems a bit overrated ( maybe even a bit lucky in Tests, although won't go that far personally ). Even during his cherry picked peak in CC, he's falling noticeably short of all of Imran, Dev, and Procter ( let alone the goated Hadlee ).

 

[Flametree]

I was curious if Franklyn Stephenson's records were comparable, but only 27-ish with the bat, and 26 with the ball.
Keith Boyce took 660 wickets for Essex at 23, but only averaged 22 with the bat.

Ronnie Irani scored 13000 runs at 43 and took 320 wickts at 29
Mark Ealham : 10,000 runs at 32, 615 wickets at 27.7

Another Zimbabwe (Rhodesia) allrounder was Paddy Clift who played 219 matches for Leicestershire from 1975-87, 586 wickets at 23.9 while averaging 25.8 with the bat.

 

[Blenkinsop]

Excuse me if this was posted earlier, but where are you finding CC stats? Cricinfo doesn't let me break down first class stats into different tournaments.

 

[ataraxia]

Excuse me if this was posted earlier, but where are you finding CC stats? Cricinfo doesn't let me break down first class stats into different tournaments.

On the WI, NZ, and Pakistan board sites (maybe not anymore for Pak) there's free access to CricketArchive for players of their nationality. A few more players are available here. Otherwise, it'll be somewhere on the web so I don't have any advice other than search for it.

 

[reyrey]

Excuse me if this was posted earlier, but where are you finding CC stats? Cricinfo doesn't let me break down first class stats into different tournaments.

It's behind a paywall on cricketarchive. com

Sometimes a google search may return a players CC average.

The closet on Cricinfo is if you google for example kent cricket records cricinfo you can find FC bowling and batting averages for players during their time there.

 

[peterhrt]

Excuse me if this was posted earlier, but where are you finding CC stats? Cricinfo doesn't let me break down first class stats into different tournaments.

The main source is CricketArchive. Stats quoted so far are first-class totals for a county or counties, including v touring sides, universities, MCC etc. It is also possible to get figures for County Championship matches only.

 

[Swamp Witch Hattie]

Yeah, I have to conclude somewhat that Botham's bowling seems a bit overrated ( maybe even a bit lucky in Tests, although won't go that far personally ). Even during his cherry picked peak in CC, he's falling noticeably short of all of Imran, Dev, and Procter ( let alone the goated Hadlee ).

We really should be calling him Chadlee (or CHadlee) in this thread, firstly, because of his alpha male level bowling, secondly, because goats can be quite frisky, thirdly, because his first name is Richard, and fourthly, to make it clear that we are referring to the County Hadlee (we could call him Thadlee (or THadlee) for the Tests Hadlee as Tests are at a higher level than county cricket).

The problem with Chadlee (or CHadlee) is that some people might think that we are talking about his time with Canterbury, and the problem with Thadlee (or THadlee) is that some might think that we are talking about his short stint with Tasmania:

from https://stats.acscricket.com/Archive/Players/1/1407/f_Batting_by_Team.html:



from https://stats.acscricket.com/Archive/Players/1/1407/f_Bowling_by_Team.html:



These are minor ambiguities though as Hadlee's greatness is mainly because of his performances in Test and county cricket (mind you, he did win "the Winsor Cup on 13 occasions, including 12 consecutive years for the 'Most Meritorious Bowling Performance' of the season" which I think would have taken into account his efforts for Canterbury; https://archive.acscricket.com/famous_cricketers/79/10/#zoom=z says "11 years in succession", not 12).

 

[Swamp Witch Hattie]

George Hirst is the only cricketer to do the double double, i.e. 2000 or more runs and 200 or more wickets in first-class matches in a single season, a feat he achieved in 1906:

from https://stats.acscricket.com/Archive/Seasons/Seasonal_Averages/ENG/1906_f_Batting_by_Runs.html:



from https://stats.acscricket.com/Archive/Seasons/Seasonal_Averages/ENG/1906_f_Bowling_by_Wickets.html:



Hirst managed the double 14 times, more than anyone else apart from his team-mate Wilfred Rhodes who performed it 16 times.

 

[the big bambino]

The last name Neville Knox, was Hobbs' choice for best fast bowler. His career was short and abruptly ended by a knee injury.

 

[Swamp Witch Hattie]

The last name Neville Knox, was Hobbs' choice for best fast bowler. His career was short and abruptly ended by a knee injury.

So you're saying that Neville Knox's knee was knackered?

 

[the big bambino]

So you're saying that Neville Knox's knee was knackered?

Say that when your pissed.

 

[Swamp Witch Hattie]

Say that when your pissed.

I'm teetotal but I raised a virtual glass to your post anyway!

This list is missing one of my favourites: "Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager managing an imaginary menagerie" (I've just seen an alternative version: "Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie").

The funniest drinking line I know of is from Monty Python's "The Philosopher's Song" (AKA Bruces' (or Bruce's) Philosopher's Song): "René Descartes was a drunken fart: "I drink, therefore I am"." The line actually starts off with "And René Descartes was ..." but I think it might sound better with the "And" omitted.

 

[peterhrt]

The last name Neville Knox, was Hobbs' choice for best fast bowler. His career was short and abruptly ended by a knee injury.

Wisden reported that Jack Gregory in 1921 was the most intimidating fast bowler since Knox in 1906.

In both cases it was steep, sharp lift from short of a length.

 

[howitzer]

I'm teetotal but I raised a virtual glass to your post anyway!

This list is missing one of my favourites: "Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager managing an imaginary menagerie" (I've just seen an alternative version: "Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie").

The funniest drinking line I know of is from Monty Python's "The Philosopher's Song" (AKA Bruces' (or Bruce's) Philosopher's Song): "René Descartes was a drunken fart: "I drink, therefore I am"." The line actually starts off with "And René Descartes was ..." but I think it might sound better with the "And" omitted.

I like 'I'm a pheasant plucker and a pheasant plucker's son. I'll be ****ing pleasant till the tongue twister is done'.

 

[Swamp Witch Hattie]

I like 'I'm a pheasant plucker and a pheasant plucker's son. I'll be ****ing pleasant till the tongue twister is done'.

In the old days (when corporal punishment in schools was more prevalent), I wonder whether a cruel English teacher ever made students say some non-swearing version of your tongue twister, hoping for the students to slip up thus giving the teacher an excuse to cane those students?

 

[peterhrt]

Highest batting averages of wicket-keepers with 500 dismissals in first-class county cricket:

Les Ames (1926-51): 44.37. [78 centuries]
Ben Brown (2007-24): 39.32. [25 centuries]
Chris Read (1998-2017): 38.72. [24 centuries]
James Foster (2000-18): 37.71. [21 centuries]
Steven Davies (2005-23): 36.98. [25 centuries]
Geoff Humpage (1974-90): 36.43. [29 centuries]
Jim Parks (1949-76): 35.97. [42 centuries]

 

[Coronis]

Highest batting averages of wicket-keepers with 500 dismissals in first-class county cricket:

Les Ames (1926-51): 44.37. [78 centuries]
Ben Brown (2007-24): 39.32. [25 centuries]
Chris Read (1998-2017): 38.72. [24 centuries]
James Foster (2000-18): 37.71. [21 centuries]
Steven Davies (2005-23): 36.98. [25 centuries]
Geoff Humpage (1974-90): 36.43. [29 centuries]
Jim Parks (1949-76): 35.97. [42 centuries]

Ames was really ahead of his time. One of the few older keepers who’d still be getting selected in the modern game.

 

[CricAddict]

Peter Trego is the first name that comes to my mind when I think of county all-rounders. Did so much for Somerset and always did well when I turned up to check county scorecards.

 

[Third_Man]

Stats aren't everything but in terms of Great Allrounders in County Cricket so Clive Lloyd deserves a mention:
First Class record for LCCC:
219 matches 12764 runs @ 44.94 HS 217* 161 catches
under-rated bowling:
just 55 wickets but still a significant contribution to the club and the county circuit.

Value: impossible to measure.

and Wasim Akram's contribution was not bad (more first class runs for Lancashire than Pakistan) 3168 runs, 374 wickets in just 94 matches

in stats terms (figures are first class for Lancashire):
Jack Iddon 21975 runs and 533 wickets
Johnny Briggs 10707 runs and 1696 wickets
even
Mike Watkinson 10683 runs and 720 wickets
David Hughes 10126 runs and 637 wickets
Len Hopwood 15519 runs and 672 wickets

all bar Hughes played Test cricket.