The great 1980s all rounders

[thierry henry]

Sobers the minnow basher huh

 

[mr_mister]

hmmm. Weekes scored 11 of his 15 centuries while averaging 83 against NZ/India/Pakistan. Perfectly good opposition today but I take it not quite the same in the 50s?

I mean especially their bowling attacks

 

[thierry henry]

It's not like England were particularly strong during Lara's era

haha yeah. Lara averaging less against other countries is not really a virtue.

 

[mr_mister]

I never really get this reference. What are players supposed to do, fail when they play minnows?

Averages are exactly that, so failing in a particular country, or against a particular team is pretty irrelevant to me, but seems an easy way for people to discredit players who dare to be better than their favourite player (not related to referenced post).

I don't normally make this point but with Weekes it's particularly noticeable

 

[Burgey]

They used to send out second stringers to the WI back in Headley's day too, for the most part. Though I don't think anyone realistically doubts George's genius.

 

[jimmy101]

It's not like England were particularly strong during Lara's era

They weren't all that shabby. After all, they were still doing some good things in the early-mid 90's. CWC semi-finalists in '92, they also had drawn series' with South Africa in 1994 & the Windies in 1995. Were decent in the 97 Ashes series as well. Had a drop off after that but things picked up again for them in the early-mid 2000s.

 

[jimmy101]

They used to send out second stringers to the WI back in Headley's day too, for the most part. Though I don't think anyone realistically doubts George's genius.

True, but he still piled on the runs against quality bowlers such as Voce, Rhodes & Farnes, plus a few other blokes who were far from the worst bowlers going round.

 

[Coronis]

Averages against Aus/Eng

Walcott: 49.04
Worrell: 45.26
Weekes: 43.12

Headley: 62.51
Lara: 56.84
Richards: 52.93
Sobers: 47.13

Wow never knew before that Sobers only averaged 43 vs Australia. Seems crazy.. Still had some impressive performances though.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Hot take: players from those days weren't actually that good and they have high averages because there were a lot of minnows around

 

[Coronis]

Hot take: players from those days weren't actually that good and they have high averages because there were a lot of minnows around

I mean he did average 60 against England.

 

[mr_mister]

They weren't all that shabby. After all, they were still doing some good things in the early-mid 90's. CWC semi-finalists in '92, they also had drawn series' with South Africa in 1994 & the Windies in 1995. Were decent in the 97 Ashes series as well. Had a drop off after that but things picked up again for them in the early-mid 2000s.

Mate you did your own point a disservice. They were '92 WC finalists!

 

[Red]

Hot take: players from those days weren't actually that good and they have high averages because there were a lot of minnows around

Hot take: Imagine if guys like Sobers had played against Afghanastan, Ireland, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

But yeh, he clearly feasted on minnows

 

[TheJediBrah]

Hot take: Imagine if guys like Sobers had played against Afghanastan, Ireland, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

But yeh, he clearly feasted on minnows

you guys do realise it's a joke right

 

[Red]

you guys do realise it's a joke right

I don't know what is and isn't in CC any more, tbh. That many weird opinions.

 

[h_hurricane]

There isn't a cricketer who has not deviated from his overall average against individual countries. Tendulkar averages 40 something against SA. Same for Viv against Aus and Pak. Lara averages 30 odd against a few countries. By Bradman standard, his average of less than 90 against Eng is 'below par'.

Garry Sobers is very much the supreme cricketer regardless of his average against one or 2 countries, Aus or NZ. Always will be.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Think you'll find Mark Richardson averaged more against each country than his overall average.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

I’ve read arguments from those who watched them all that Worrell was the best of the three against better sides, but I can’t recall where I read it

Sjs

 

[a massive zebra]

True, but he still piled on the runs against quality bowlers such as Voce, Rhodes & Farnes, plus a few other blokes who were far from the worst bowlers going round.

Rhodes was undoutedly a legendary bowler but I think he was about 50 when Headley faced him, and while still tirelessly accurate he had lost a lot of his sting by then.

 

[kyear2]

After the big four of Headley, Sobers, Viv and Lara, I assume they make up 5th-7th in most people's minds. With Greenidge, Kanhai and Chanderpaul on their heels


Funnily enough Weekes record makes him seem a bit of a minnow basher though

Basically this. Walcott had some great innings at home vs Lindwall and Miller but most of the pitches in the Caribbean in that era were not the liveliest. Weeks was better than his record, just getting hurt at the most inopportune moments. So the comment is fair. Worrell though was arguably the best of the 3 and pure class. He did miss out on the minnow tours which didn't help his average.

 

[a massive zebra]

Funnily enough Weekes record makes him seem a bit of a minnow basher though

Yeah, Weekes scored 9,069 runs @ 91.61 for Bacup in the Lancashire league.