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The England Thread

Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Either way - yes, Gough was poor in that Final, as he had been in the Semi, but it was only 2 games and by-and-large he bowled very well that summer before those last 2.
 
marc71178

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
For the record his last few ODI series:

Natwest challenge - ER 6.39 (next worst 5.63)
Natwest series - ER 5.37 (worst by an English bowler)
SA - ER 4.14 (the one anomaly)
Champions trophy - ER 4.80 (by an English bowler)
Natwest challenge - ER 4.44 (well, he did beat Alex Wharf...)

If he were taking wickets at a great rate then he might be excused such rubbish on an odd occasion...
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
marc71178 said:
I can't go to Pakistan because I need to spend time with my family.

Pretty big one.
Click to expand...
He said that?
Still doesn't make much difference to me even if he did - but for that matter how do we know he didn't want to spend time with his family, even if he did also want to appear on SCD (which is hardly the most heinous sin in The World).
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
marc71178 said:
For the record his last few ODI series:

Natwest challenge - ER 6.39 (next worst 5.63)
Natwest series - ER 5.37 (worst by an English bowler)
SA - ER 4.14 (the one anomaly)
Champions trophy - ER 4.80 (by an English bowler)
Natwest challenge - ER 4.44 (well, he did beat Alex Wharf...)

If he were taking wickets at a great rate then he might be excused such rubbish on an odd occasion...
Click to expand...
Except his 2004 figures pre-CT Final and Semi were pretty good.
Of course, it's more convenient for you to use it in series...
More accurate would be:
7-29-1 - pretty decent
10-50-4 - bit expensive but OK in your terms because he took wickets
10-41-2 - pretty decent
6-19-0 - good
7-48-3 - poor
10-58-0 - poor
10-27-2 - excellent (last ball went for 6), even on a dewy pitch
10-49-1 - not great
9.1-46-2 - not good
10-53-3 - poor, but not as bad as the rest
9-14-2 - superb
10-47-1 - not great
10-41-0 - pretty good
9-70-3 - very poor
6.5-36-2 - poor
10-50-0 - poor, especially given that Collingwood got 10-34-4
6.2-43-1 - very poor
4-37-1 - poor and limited
So, really, it was only the last 2 in 2004 and the last 4 in 2005 that were especially dreadful - and they're outnumbered 11 to 6.
 
marc71178

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Richard said:
He said that?
Still doesn't make much difference to me even if he did - but for that matter how do we know he didn't want to spend time with his family, even if he did also want to appear on SCD (which is hardly the most heinous sin in The World).
Click to expand...
If he wanted to spend time with his family, why did he start doing a program that meant he was going to be away from them for an extended time (equivalent to being in Pakistan in fact)

He lied to the selectors, and no matter which way you try and dress it up, that is wrong.
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
And you've never taken a day off work saying "I'm ill" because, for instance, you wanted to watch the cricket?
(Even if you haven't, countless millions of people have, for reasons such as)
I see little difference.
In any case - you still can't prove he didn't also want to spend time with his family. How much time did learning to dance a bit really take? I didn't watch the thing, but I can't believe it'd have been more than a few hours a day.
 
marc71178

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Richard said:
And you've never taken a day off work saying "I'm ill" because, for instance, you wanted to watch the cricket?
Click to expand...
No, I haven't, because I have respect for my employers.
 
Autobahn

Autobahn

State 12th Man
You can't get away from the fact that he didn't tell the truth. He took adavantage of the fact that the management has been very flexible on things to do with the family, not holding it against the players, and yet he goes off and appears on a TV show chasing after fame and fortune.

I mean had he decided half-way through the winter he was bored and went off to play grade-cricket in Aus, again he would be lying but he could justfiy it by using that time to improve his game, whereas he did sod-all apart from prancing around on TV and let down his team mates in the process.

And to be fair it would have been touch and go really if he was selected for the World cup being heavily-injury prone and what not.
 
Autobahn

Autobahn

State 12th Man
True good point there, he did talk about how fit he feels now many times but did he really have to go on a TV show for that? I mean i'm sure he could have got the same results without going on SCD.

And to be fair while his fitness was a worry the major problem has been with him not pulling his weight in the wicket department and i can't see how SCD is going help him bowl a better inswinger. :laugh:

But then again he was always a man of determination and reinvention so maybe he'll prove everyone wrong. :ph34r:
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
marc71178 said:
No, I haven't, because I have respect for my employers.
Click to expand...
Well you're one of a very, very small minority, then, because almost everyone else has. I fail to see why Gough should be villified when virtually no-one else is.
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Autobahn said:
You can't get away from the fact that he didn't tell the truth. He took adavantage of the fact that the management has been very flexible on things to do with the family, not holding it against the players, and yet he goes off and appears on a TV show chasing after fame and fortune.
Click to expand...
Seriously - how on Earth can you criticise someone for chasing fame and fortune?
I'm not trying to "get away" from that fact - I'm just pointing-out that it's not really the most heinous of sins, because virtually everyone has lied to their employers at some time or another about time-off.
 
marc71178

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Only you could compare someone taking a sicky from work with downright lies as in this situation.
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
"Taking a sickey" is downright lies. That's what Gough has done and it's what virtually everyone has done at some stage or another.
Just because you are virtuous beyond most doesn't mean you have the right to say Gough has comitted a crime no-one else has.
 
marc71178

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
For crying out loud, how is missing 1 day's work the same as a month or so?

If it weren't someone you worship, you wouldn't be defending him.
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Rubbish, I'd be defending anyone if the situation was fit. It doesn't matter whatsoever whether Gough has lied, it doesn't make him a better or worse bowler.
The fact is, you are criticising someone for lying about why time is taken off - not how long that time was. This is the same however long the time is.
In any case - Gough has missed 5 ODIs. About the same as missing a day or 2 at work because you fancied a break or whatever.
 
Barney Rubble

Barney Rubble

International Coach
As if we didn't know this before we went 3-0 down to India, I'd just like to say that as far as the World Cup goes, we're screwed. :ph34r: :(
 
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