The case of the missing black Test cricketer

[Unomaas]

serious question: how many years from now will we see the first all-black South Africa team?

No! Wrong!

The key word is "representation".

Change your question to:

serious question: how many years from now will we see the first representative South Africa team?

Unknown. To many unknown's to contend with to answer the question.

 

[Marius]

No! Wrong!

The key word is "representation".

Change your question to:



Unknown. To many unknown's to contend with to answer the question.

What does 'representative' mean though?

 

[Unomaas]

What does 'representative' mean though?

2011 South Africa Census Data

Plainly stated that given any social event or gathering of people in SA, that given an imaginary upper limit of say 1000, that theoretically, there would be:

796 African black/Mixed Race people
90 Coloured people
89 White people
25 Asian people

Translated to an imaginary SA test cricket team squad of 15 people in a perfect world, there would be:

12 African black/Mixed race people
1 white person
1 Coloured person
1 Asian

These numbers and percentages assume a perfect statistical distribution and while there might be discrepancies to the mean, mode and median of any given sample population, allowances would be made such that given numerous population samples and the calculation of the standard mean (average), we would always get a perfect distribution of:

79.6% African black people
9.0 % Coloured people
8.9 % White people
2.5% Asian people

In any normal population, this distribution will happen naturally. SA is not normal as I'm sure many of you have picked up already.

 

[Marius]

2011 South Africa Census Data

Plainly stated that given any social event or gathering of people in SA, that given an imaginary upper limit of say 1000, that theoretically, there would be:

796 African black/Mixed Race people
90 Coloured people
89 White people
25 Asian people

Translated to an imaginary SA test cricket team squad of 15 people in a perfect world, there would be:

12 African black/Mixed race people
1 white person
1 Coloured person
1 Asian

These numbers and percentages assume a perfect statistical distribution and while there might be discrepancies to the mean, mode and median of any given sample population, allowances would be made such that given numerous population samples and the calculation of the standard mean (average), we would always get a perfect distribution of:

79.6% African black people
9.0 % Coloured people
8.9 % White people
2.5% Asian people

In any normal population, this distribution will happen naturally. SA is not normal as I'm sure many of you have picked up already.

So, what happens in the national Test side?

We're screwed, Indians will never be allowed to get a gig, cause they make up only 2% of the population!

This is representivity taken to its logical conclusion, which is ridiculous.

You yourself said that nobody can 'label' us which I agree. Therefore, a representative South African side is one which has South Africans in it, no matter their ancestry. Hendrik Verwoerd must be sitting in hell rubbing his hands in glee at how South Africans are still so obsessed with race.

 

[nightprowler10]

To all the Pakistani's

If you had 1 muslim and 10 christian's representing your team, how would you feel about that?

Well it depends on if they can bat and catch.

If yes then why would I give a **** who or what they worship?

If not then they're as good as the rest of country and hence fairly represent the nation.

 

[mullarkey]

Well it depends on if they can bat and catch.

If yes then why would I give a **** who or what they worship?

If not then they're as good as the rest of country and hence fairly represent the nation.

are you a Pakistani? (again serious question).

 

[Prince EWS]

are you a Pakistani? (again serious question).

He is.

 

[Unomaas]

So, what happens in the national Test side?

We're screwed, Indians will never be allowed to get a gig, cause they make up only 2% of the population!

This is representivity taken to its logical conclusion, which is ridiculous.

You yourself said that nobody can 'label' us which I agree. Therefore, a representative South African side is one which has South Africans in it, no matter their ancestry. Hendrik Verwoerd must be sitting in hell rubbing his hands in glee at how South Africans are still so obsessed with race.

That's why I made special mention of words such as "perfect" and "theoretical". Stats does not work well with small numbers such as a team of 11 players. Rather look at it like this: If we lived in a natural population, statistically, we could calculate with reasonable certainty that of the next 100 test cricket debutantes, 79 would be african black/mixed race, 9 Coloured people, 9 White people, 3 asian people. Take into account that over a time period, the law of averages will kick in.

And yes, the irony of the situation and the fact the government is practicing reverse social engineering has not escaped me or anyone else for that matter. In the late nineties, this issue was the tipping point on the transformation debate but what else could government do to correct the situation?

 

[mullarkey]

He is.

okay thanks.

 

[Marius]

That's why I made special mention of words such as "perfect" and "theoretical". Stats does not work well with small numbers such as a team of 11 players. Rather look at it like this: If we lived in a natural population, statistically, we could calculate with reasonable certainty that of the next 100 test cricket debutantes, 79 would be african black/mixed race, 9 Coloured people, 9 White people, 3 asian people. Take into account that over a time period, the law of averages will kick in.

And yes, the irony of the situation and the fact the government is practicing reverse social engineering has not escaped me or anyone else for that matter. In the late nineties, this issue was the tipping point on the transformation debate but what else could government do to correct the situation?

What a load of nonsense.

In that case where are all New Zealand's Maori Test cricketers? They make up nearly 20% of the population there?

And New Zealand is a 'normal' society, but their cricket side is nowhere close to reflecting the demographics of the country.

Why? Because Maoris (I assume) prefer to play rugby. There needs to be black Africans in the Test side but to expect them to make up 80% of any national Test squad is, frankly, absurd.

 

[Unomaas]

I'm not a New Zealander. I'm not qualified to talk about their country. I don't know their politics, history or issues.

 

[Unomaas]

We have to be honest that Cricket has never been a popular sport in South Africa. Mainly played and liked by the small communities of South Africa. Majority of South African's who are of the black community only prefer Soccer.

Do you have any facts, literature or stats to back this assertion?

If you went into many rural townships and asked someone who Graeme Smith was, you would most probably get a return answer of "Graeme who?" If you go into that same community and asked them who Menzi Ngubane was, you'll soon be roped into a conversation that would last a couple of hours (In case you are curious, he is one of the lead actors in the most popular soapies [Generations] in SA...watched daily by over 10 million people).

If you want to woo a prospective group to your way of thinking, you have to start talking their language.

 

[Unomaas]

This is a very limited example, but my mother teaches at a former Model C school. The school is probably 90% black.

The school used to have a cricket team. It doesn't anymore, but it has soccer and netball teams. Why? Because those are the sports the kids are interested in.

We have to grow the sport but if there's no interest, there is no interest.

It also doesn't help that the SABC is broadcasting fewer and fewer live cricket games.

In the township, play cricket get called a "coconut" (An insulting term used to explain a black person trying to adopt white tendencies or a black person putting on airs like a white person. Its a very shaming term).

Its not that their is no interest...there's just no motivation. Children can't associate with something they can't relate too. They choose soccer because their role models and hero's play soccer. Simple actually.

As for the SABC and their broadcasting of Cricket, it doesn't help that prospective new audiences do not understand the point, rules or reason's of the game (they are just like American's in that regard) and nobody seems inclined to want to explain it either. Back in the early 2000's, I had it once explained to me that Test cricket was a source of big amusement when it aired on TV...an opportunity to observe white people doing some very amusing things (You must remember, there are million's of rural South African's that have never even met a white person before. I was visiting in a Township called Kanyamazane in Nelspruit in Mpumulanga). It also does not help that many don't understand English or Afrikaans so people make up their own running commentary in their own language for the amusement of the other people huddled around the television to the sounds of raucous laughter. Of course, when Makhaya started bowling, interest peaked, but as soon as he got taken off, everyone changed the channel.

 

[Unomaas]

How am I putting cricket at the centre of the nation's debate?

Transformation is not wrong. Picking players on merit is not wrong.

Its about precedence and priority of the 2 issues. The South African government backed by a then 80% majority of the voters in the country (including myself) voted for and endorsed a pro transformation policy more than a decade ago. I am South African, love my country, very patriotic. I am a Protea's supporter, love my cricket team, want to see them be the best in the world.

However, whichever way I spin it, any decision requiring choice between the Protea's or my country, the Protea's always lose. Any attempt to elevate the interests of the Protea's above the wishes of the government and the majority of the voters of this country could be construed as being subversive. In the end, you may protest the decision and debate it but you must also respect it because in doing so, you respect the principles of a majority who voted in a constitutionally elected democracy.

If you think this is wrong, then I would maybe suggest that you migrate to a non-democratic country

 

[Unomaas]

someone said earlier that earlier that black people dont have the facilitiesthe white kids have with all their fancy tennis courts and stuff... what an absolute loud of BS.

I work in rural areas a lot from an engineering perspective and there is a lot of money pumped into infrustructure from mining companies and sasol etc with huge fields that are constructed with all sorts of facilities. .. Left... In... Ruins.

I dont even think municipalities run these places anymore anywhere, even in traditional white communities. and its all left in the hands of private clubs.

Next time you are in a rural area and you see mining companies and Sasol building cricket fields, stop and explain to the nice people that they should stop their cricket field building and then take that money and rather invest it in paying for the salary of a coach and a small allowance for cricket equipment and instruct that nice coach to build a cricket team. As one person so aptly pointed out, all the infrastructure you need is a rubbish bin, a plank and a tennis ball. The road is your field.

You and alot of people take it for granted that when many children's cricket experience starts, they have parents, coaches, teachers, community leaders and religious figures who support children, constantly motivating them and supporting them...driving them to excellence while at the same time providing a constant stream of emotional positive re-enforcement. Here in poor South Africa, you're lucky if you have such resources or even people that give a damn.

Its like that joke about non-existant fathers:

Father: I'm a good father to our child!
Single mom: Oh really. What makes you think that when you don't even see him/her?
Father: I pay child support!

Go figure

Did you watch Sachin's interview after his retirement? He took great pains to emphasize the support structure around him (most notably his parents and teacher) that was pushing him to excellence. Instead of paying homage to Sachin for the talent he was, maybe we should rather direct our respect to Mr and Mrs Tendulkar for making Sachin the person that he is?

 

[Unomaas]

Some one mentioned the fact that Vernon Philander made it into the Test team even having grown up in Ravensmead?

Just to explain that...

Ravensmead is a suburb on the outskirts of Bellville...a formerly white-designated CBD and residential area which has got lots of excellent sporting infrastructure, schools, etc. As far as suburbs go, Ravensmead is above average (compared to where I grew up) and Bellville is posh (comparatively speaking). Bellville is also the home of the famous Bellville Cricket club (Beuran Hendricks also hails from this club), one of the most prestigious clubs in the Cape Town Metropolis. All the immediate Bellville surrounding districts and schools (such as Ravensmead) feed into Bellville Cricket club which feeds into Western Cape Cricket Association which feeds into the Cape Cobra's franchise which feeds into the Protea's setup. Point is, the further you move away from cricketing centers, the less likely you are to be exposed to it.

 

[benchmark00]

Well it depends on if they can bat and catch.

lol a Pakistani cricketer who can catch.

 

[Rasimione]

Some one mentioned the fact that Vernon Philander made it into the Test team even having grown up in Ravensmead?

Just to explain that...

Ravensmead is a suburb on the outskirts of Bellville...a formerly white-designated CBD and residential area which has got lots of excellent sporting infrastructure, schools, etc. As far as suburbs go, Ravensmead is above average (compared to where I grew up) and Bellville is posh (comparatively speaking). Bellville is also the home of the famous Bellville Cricket club (Beuran Hendricks also hails from this club), one of the most prestigious clubs in the Cape Town Metropolis. All the immediate Bellville surrounding districts and schools (such as Ravensmead) feed into Bellville Cricket club which feeds into Western Cape Cricket Association which feeds into the Cape Cobra's franchise which feeds into the Protea's setup. Point is, the further you move away from cricketing centers, the less likely you are to be exposed to it.

The same poster claimed that I was making excuses when i mentioned that most black areas do no have facilties and that it matters not, some blacks have made it under the circumstances.

 

[Unomaas]

It's also interesting to note that participation in cricket from blacks in the UK seems to have decreased markedly since the 1980s. I'm not sure if there's a parallel here or not, but I also get the feeling that participation has decreased in the West Indies as well, and the Kenyan team seems to have declined substantially since the late 90s. Is there an even wider issue which also needs to be addressed?

Can't answer for UK, but I have read various articles on the Windies plight. West Indies being a colonized region, UK even post independence had a large sway over Windies life. However, with the USA becoming such a dominant force within the region, the Windies are now more influenced by American culture than the historic British culture. Hence, Windies athletes are now forsaking cricket and rather targeting sports such as athletics, soccer, basketball, baseball and american football which are way more financially lucrative than cricket. American tertiary institutions are also offering lots of sports scolarships/bursaries to Windies nations simply for the fact that Windies people are far more superior athletes than their Caucasian counter parts.

The Kenyan team has suffered a massive setback in terms of finances. The ICC funding and goodwill has dried up and the game of cricket is regressing. The situation is made worse because the political situation is not ideal. The Kenyan government is also not able to subsidize the game to any extent. Kenyan cricket final's are sometimes screened here on the Supersport Sports channel and going by the visual's, the cricket fields don't look healthy and there are no virtually no supporters. Sad really

 

[nightprowler10]

lol a Pakistani cricketer who can catch.

Me: we're ****
benchy: haha you're ****

Scathing stuff.