the better bowler Malcolm Marshall or Dennis Lillee

[opc10]

I love how people here take snapshots of career statisitcs to prove their point beyond doubt when there is so much more to the stories than simple numbers.

Exactly!!!! Snapshots of Statistics dont tell the complete story....

But a Whole Careers Statistics do....as good as Lillie was, he wasn't a patch on Marshall, Ambrose, McGrath.....

Someone summed it up perfectly earlier in the thread....Lillie had the Mo, Gold Chain, Charisma, perfect action...some people confuse looks with performance!

 

[Richard]

Having seen both Lillee and Marshall bowl in their prime I can tell you that statistics do not tell you everything. Both were magnificient bowlers, matchwinners. Lillee got his reputation from the number of times that he performed in the crunch situations, obtaining critical wickets to put his side back in the match. Marshall was a very canny bowler, relying less on the brute speed than his West Indian contempories.

Who was better? Lillee by a fraction - just because of his big time performances. But I would love to have both in my side, Imran Khan & Sobers as my all rounders and Warne as my spinner.

I love how people here take snapshots of career statisitcs to prove their point beyond doubt when there is so much more to the stories than simple numbers.

Indeed there is, but do you really imagine Lillee looked much of a bowler on his Pakistan tour?
Do you really think it's anyone's fault but his that he chose World Series Cricket ahead of another subcontinental tour?
Do you seriously think there's absolutely nothing in the notion that Lillee's attitude might have lead people to think more of him than his bowling actually merited?

 

[Richard]

Exactly!!!! Snapshots of Statistics dont tell the complete story....

But a Whole Careers Statistics do

I don't think so. I think breakdowns of stats tell far more than a whole career, which (especially when of a good length - 30 Tests or more or so) are generally pretty meaningless. No single figure can say much about a lengthy career.

 

[archie mac]

Exactly!!!! Snapshots of Statistics dont tell the complete story....

But a Whole Careers Statistics do....as good as Lillie was, he wasn't a patch on Marshall, Ambrose, McGrath.....

Someone summed it up perfectly earlier in the thread....Lillie had the Mo, Gold Chain, Charisma, perfect action...some people confuse looks with performance!

You think? I thought the pro Lillee arguments won it hands down, you seem to be selecting particular posts like the Lillee disparagers pick particular stats

 

[Top_Cat]

Do you seriously think there's absolutely nothing in the notion that Lillee's attitude might have lead people to think more of him than his bowling actually merited?

I like that; you weren't even alive then yet you're arguing about perception of LIllee's persona with someone who actually was at the time? Would you argue with a pregnant woman about how easy childbirth is?!

 

[Goughy]

Would you argue with a pregnant woman about how easy childbirth is?!

To be fair, if a woman is pregnant she has not given birth yet, how would she know better?

 

[Dick Rockett]

To be fair, if a woman is pregnant she has not given birth yet, how would she know better?

Haha, because womankind just knows it to be true. They love using it as leverage in arguments too.

Mind you, no woman's ever been hit in the knackers.

 

[adharcric]

LOL, what's going on here, I was expecting an intense debate on Lillee vs. Marshall.
Instead, you guys are talking about pregnant women ...

 

[opc10]

I dont get hit in the knackers any more...my wife took 'em

 

[oz_fan]

Put in Headley for Lloyd and switch he and sobers around and I agree.

Yeah. Headley has a better record than Lloyd but I had Lloyd in there for his captaincy though. I suppose Sobers could do the job though.

 

[Ikki]

I like that; you weren't even alive then yet you're arguing about perception of LIllee's persona with someone who actually was at the time? Would you argue with a pregnant woman about how easy childbirth is?!

Good point.

 

[Top_Cat]

To be fair, if a woman is pregnant she has not given birth yet, how would she know better?

Assuming it's her first child.

 

[SJS]

Assuming it's her first child.

Correction....first biological child

 

[Matt79]

Do you really think it's anyone's fault but his that he chose World Series Cricket ahead of another subcontinental tour?
QUOTE]

You keep bagging him out for choosing to play World Series Cricket like doing so was a bad thing. Cricket would not be what it is today if people, like Lillee, hadn't taken the decision to vote with their feet. The fact that doing so earnt them fair recompense for their efforts doesn't detract from the fact that today's cricket fans owe World Series Cricket a hell of a lot. Plus it was a much higher standard of cricket than most of the Test cricket at that time. AND if you add in Lillee's stats from those matches to his test averages, an even better and fairer picture of his comes out.

 

[luckyeddie]

Assuming it's her first child.

Assuming it's her child

(Irish joke)

 

[SJS]

Do you really think it's anyone's fault but his that he chose World Series Cricket ahead of another subcontinental tour?
QUOTE]

You keep bagging him out for choosing to play World Series Cricket like doing so was a bad thing. Cricket would not be what it is today if people, like Lillee, hadn't taken the decision to vote with their feet. The fact that doing so earnt them fair recompense for their efforts doesn't detract from the fact that today's cricket fans owe World Series Cricket a hell of a lot. Plus it was a much higher standard of cricket than most of the Test cricket at that time. AND if you add in Lillee's stats from those matches to his test averages, an even better and fairer picture of his comes out.

I think even today, ICC should go ahead and add the world series games to the official records. They were much better and highly competitive compared to the stupid ICC tests last year

 

[archie mac]

I think even today, ICC should go ahead and add the world series games to the official records. They were much better and highly competitive compared to the stupid ICC tests last year

I agree 100% they should be at least First Class

 

[SJS]

I agree 100% they should be at least First Class

Whats the problem with the quotes ??

 

[SJS]

Web Staff please check. Whats the problem with "Quote" ?

 

[Richard]

I like that; you weren't even alive then yet you're arguing about perception of LIllee's persona with someone who actually was at the time? Would you argue with a pregnant woman about how easy childbirth is?!

Err, sorry?
Is Lillee's attitude\persona not pretty well known?