The better batsman the bettter #3 Ponting vs Dravid

[social]

That's a myth...there's an assumption that unless a pitch is good for seamers (which a few Indian pitches are these days anyway) it's flat...Indian pitches are probably harder to do well on than Australia. Australia pitches these days (with the exception of the current series) are extremely flat, which is a another reason why Australia have been so dominant...Warne and McGrath (particularly McGrath) are two of the best on pitches that offer little assistance.

Tell that to Anil

I get your point, Aussie pitches in general have had little life in them over the last few years.

Ponting is a great player with an attacking mind-set.

Dravid is a great player with a more defensive mind-set.

Their records prove that they are equally as effective.

 

[Slats4ever]

I'm interested to know in the eyes of CC, is there anybody actually good in the Australian team compared to that of those in the Indian team?

His view is hardly surprising.

hahaha word. But you can't change some people.

Dravid is the kind've guy who would definately be tougher to get out, whilst Ponting is definately more of a devastating run scorer. Both are completely different styles of batsman. Ponting gives more chances than dravid but sets a much brighter tone.

TBH I think that these two ought to be considered whenever conversation and debate is sparked about Lara and Tendulkar.

 

[Sudeep]

Dravid is the one who has the better average in the last two years. nearly 59 vs 56 of Ponting. Just for comparison's sake -

Ponting
Dravid

Mat    I  NO  Runs HS1  HS2  HS3     Ave 100  50   0

unfiltered            99  164  22  7990 257  242  207   56.26  26  32   8
                      94  158  18  8003 270  233  222   57.16  20  39   6
filtered              25   47   7  2241 207  156  149   56.02   6  11   1
                      20   30   3  1586 270  160  135   58.74   4   8   4

v Australia            0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
                       6   11   2   319  91*  60   38   35.44   0   2   2
v Bangladesh           0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
                       2    2   0   160 160    0    -   80.00   1   0   1
v England              5    9   0   359 156   61   48   39.88   1   1   1
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
v ICC World XI         1    2   0   100  54   46    -   50.00   0   1   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
v India                2    4   0    95  47   25   12   23.75   0   0   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
v New Zealand          5    8   3   438 105   86*  68   87.60   1   3   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
v Pakistan             3    6   2   403 207   98   62* 100.75   1   2   0
                       6    9   0   642 270  135  110   71.33   3   1   1
v South Africa         2    4   0   252 117   71   53   63.00   1   2   0
                       2    3   1   181  80   54   47*  90.50   0   2   0
v Sri Lanka            4    8   0   265  92   45   28   33.12   0   1   0
                       2    3   0   109  53   32   24   36.33   0   1   0
v West Indies          3    6   2   329 149  104*  56   82.25   2   1   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
v Zimbabwe             0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
                       2    2   0   175  98   77    -   87.50   0   2   0

in Australia          13   25   5  1368 207  149  117   68.40   4   8   0
                       2    4   1   152  91*  38   23   50.66   0   1   1
in Bangladesh          0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
                       2    2   0   160 160    0    -   80.00   1   0   1
in England             5    9   0   359 156   61   48   39.88   1   1   1
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
in India               1    2   0    23  12   11    -   11.50   0   0   0
                      11   18   2   790 135  110   80   49.37   2   5   1
in New Zealand         3    5   2   293 105   86*  47*  97.66   1   1   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
in Pakistan            0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
                       3    4   0   309 270   33    6   77.25   1   0   1
in Sri Lanka           3    6   0   198  92   28   27   33.00   0   1   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
in Zimbabwe            0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
                       2    2   0   175  98   77    -   87.50   0   2   0

in Africa              0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
                       2    2   0   175  98   77    -   87.50   0   2   0
in Asia                4    8   0   221  92   28   27   27.62   0   1   0
                      16   24   2  1259 270  160  135   57.22   4   5   3
in Europe              5    9   0   359 156   61   48   39.88   1   1   1
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
in Oceania            16   30   7  1661 207  149  117   72.21   5   9   0
                       2    4   1   152  91*  38   23   50.66   0   1   1

home                  13   25   5  1368 207  149  117   68.40   4   8   0
                      11   18   2   790 135  110   80   49.37   2   5   1
away                  12   22   2   873 156  105   92   43.65   2   3   1
                       9   12   1   796 270  160   98   72.36   2   3   3

2004                  10   19   2   697  98   92   68   41.00   0   5   0
                      12   18   3   946 270  160   91*  63.06   2   4   3
2005                  15   28   5  1544 207  156  149   67.13   6   6   1
                       8   12   0   640 135  110   98   53.33   2   4   1

season 2003/04         4    8   0   270  92   47   28   33.75   0   1   0
                       4    6   1   438 270   91*  38   87.60   1   1   1
season 2004            1    2   0    67  45   22    -   33.50   0   0   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
season 2004/05         9   16   5   864 207  105   98   78.54   2   5   0
                      11   17   2   841 160  135  110   56.06   3   4   2
season 2005            5    9   0   359 156   61   48   39.88   1   1   1
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
season 2005/06         6   12   2   681 149  117  104*  68.10   3   4   0
                       5    7   0   307  98   77   53   43.85   0   3   1

as captain            24   45   7  2169 207  156  149   57.07   6  11   1
                       6   10   1   229  53   33   32   25.44   0   1   1
not as captain         1    2   0    72  47   25    -   36.00   0   0   0
                      14   20   2  1357 270  160  135   75.38   4   7   3

toss won              10   20   2   849 117   92   71   47.16   1   6   1
                      12   17   2  1158 270  160  135   77.20   4   4   2
toss lost             15   27   5  1392 207  156  149   63.27   5   5   0
                       8   13   1   428  80   77   60   35.66   0   4   2

toss won & batted      8   16   1   695 117   92   71   46.33   1   5   0
                       8   13   2   740 160  135  110   67.27   3   2   1
toss won & fielded     2    4   1   154  61   47*  46   51.33   0   1   1
                       4    4   0   418 270   98   50  104.50   1   2   1
toss lost & sent in    4    7   1   452 149  104*  98   75.33   2   1   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
toss lost & fielded   11   20   4   940 207  156  105   58.75   3   4   0
                       8   13   1   428  80   77   60   35.66   0   4   2

matches batting 1st   12   23   2  1147 149  117  104*  54.61   3   6   0
                       8   13   2   740 160  135  110   67.27   3   2   1
matches fielding 1st  13   24   5  1094 207  156  105   57.57   3   5   1
                      12   17   1   846 270   98   80   52.87   1   6   3

1st team innings      25   25   0  1268 207  149  117   50.72   4   6   0
                      20   20   1  1132 270  160  110   59.57   3   5   3
2nd team innings      23   22   7   973 156  104*  98   64.86   2   5   1
                      13   10   2   454 135   91*  60   56.75   1   3   1

1st match innings     12   12   0   639 149  117   92   53.25   2   3   0
                       8    8   1   434 160  110   38   62.00   2   0   0
2nd match innings     13   13   0   629 207  105   61   48.38   2   3   0
                      12   12   0   698 270   98   80   58.16   1   5   3
3rd match innings     12   12   2   556 104*  98   54   55.60   1   3   0
                       5    5   1   306 135   91*  53   76.50   1   2   1
4th match innings     11   10   5   417 156   86*  62*  83.40   1   2   1
                       8    5   1   148  60   47*  23   37.00   0   1   0

no follow-on          23   44   7  2183 207  156  149   59.00   6  11   1
                      18   28   3  1420 270  135  110   56.80   3   8   4
enforcing a follow-on  1    1   0     9   9    -    -    9.00   0   0   0
                       2    2   0   166 160    6    -   83.00   1   0   0
in team following on   1    2   0    49  48    1    -   24.50   0   0   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -

Opening                0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
                       1    1   0    24  24    -    -   24.00   0   0   0
3rd position          25   45   7  2161 207  156  149   56.86   6  10   1
                      18   26   3  1456 270  160  135   63.30   4   7   4
4th position           1    1   0    53  53    -    -   53.00   0   1   0
                       1    1   0    26  26    -    -   26.00   0   0   0
5th position           0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
                       2    2   0    80  53   27    -   40.00   0   1   0
6th position           1    1   0    27  27    -    -   27.00   0   0   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -

bowled                 3    3   0   249 207   25   17   83.00   1   0   0   4%
                       7    7   0   476 270   98   80   68.00   1   2   2   9%
caught                18   24   0  1206 156  149  117   50.25   4   5   1  31%
                      13   15   0   768 160  135  110   51.20   3   3   1  19%
lbw                    8    8   0   194  71   56   25   24.25   0   2   0  10%
                       3    3   0   120  60   38   22   40.00   0   1   0   4%
run out                2    2   0    76  48   28    -   38.00   0   0   0   3%
                       2    2   0    53  53    0    -   26.50   0   1   1   3%
stumped                3    3   0   187  98   68   21   62.33   0   2   0   4%
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -   0%
not out                7    7   7   329 104*  86*  62*    -     1   2   0   9%
                       3    3   3   169  91*  47*  31*    -     0   1   0   4%

dismissed             25   40   0  1912 207  156  149   47.80   5   9   1
                      20   27   0  1417 270  160  135   52.48   4   7   4
not dismissed          7    7   7   329 104*  86*  62*    -     1   2   0
                       3    3   3   169  91*  47*  31*    -     0   1   0

matches won           16   31   7  1638 207  149  117   68.25   5   8   0
                      10   14   2  1118 270  160  135   93.16   4   4   1
matches drawn          6   10   0   470 156   71   53   47.00   1   2   0
                       5    6   1   291  91*  54   50   58.20   0   3   0
matches lost           3    6   0   133  61   48   12   22.16   0   1   1
                       5   10   0   177  60   33   23   17.70   0   1   3

won by an innings      1    1   0    51  51    -    -   51.00   0   1   0
                       5    5   0   513 270  160   77  102.60   2   1   1
won defending target   9   18   2   947 149  117  104*  59.18   3   4   0
                       3    6   1   380 135  110   53   76.00   2   1   0
won chasing target     6   12   5   640 207  105   86*  91.42   2   3   0
                       2    3   1   225  98   80   47* 112.50   0   2   0
lost defending targ.   2    4   0    84  61   12   11   21.00   0   1   1
                       4    8   0   144  60   23   22   18.00   0   1   2
lost chasing target    1    2   0    49  48    1    -   24.50   0   0   0
                       1    2   0    33  33    0    -   16.50   0   0   1

5 day matches         24   45   7  2141 207  156  149   56.34   6  10   1
                      19   28   3  1563 270  160  135   62.52   4   8   3
6 day matches          1    2   0   100  54   46    -   50.00   0   1   0
                       1    2   0    23  23    0    -   11.50   0   0   1

1st/Only Tests         8   15   2   844 149  104*  98   64.92   2   5   0
                       8   10   0   302  77   60   54   30.20   0   4   3
2nd Tests              8   15   3   482 117   68   62*  40.16   1   3   1
                       7   11   1   766 160  135  110   76.60   3   3   1
3rd Tests              5   10   2   736 207  156  105   92.00   3   3   0
                       3    5   0   331 270   22   21   66.20   1   0   0
4th Tests              3    6   0   144  48   47   25   24.00   0   0   0
                       2    4   2   187  91*  38   31*  93.50   0   1   0
5th Tests              1    1   0    35  35    -    -   35.00   0   0   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -

in series drawn        1    2   0    72  47   25    -   36.00   0   0   0
                       4    7   1   462 135  110   91*  77.00   2   2   0
in series won         17   32   7  1558 207  149  105   62.32   4   8   0
                      11   14   1   934 270  160   98   71.84   2   5   2
in series lost         5    9   0   359 156   61   48   39.88   1   1   1
                       5    9   1   190  60   31*  27   23.75   0   1   2
in series leads        2    4   0   252 117   71   53   63.00   1   2   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -

Vs Australia Dravid's average has been 35. But Ponting is lucky not to have faced Australia.

Dravid averages 80 vs Bangladesh in 2 innings. Ponting hasnt faced them.

Dravid meanwhile hasnt faced England.

Dravid encashes on Zimbabwe while Ponting does not play them.

Dravid has the better average vs South Africa while Ponting has the better average vs Pakistan. The inning of Ponting in this match would mean his average vs South Africa will improve and that just shows how variable a 2 year analysis is.

Ponting has encashed on Windies while Dravid hasnt played them.

Both have performed poorly versus Sri Lanka.

Last 20 matches, Ponting leads by 4-5 with his average. Which just proves that stats are codswallop. Both are awesome batsmen, and almost impossible to chose the better one from. However, if asked to pick one, and only one, for a side, I'd go with Ponting, for his more aggressive approach.

 

[SJS]

When Dravid was kicking butt over here in Australia a few years ago, many Australian CW posters and general cricket fans started rating him and claiming he's one of the best. Same goes for Inzy vs. England. These batsman were great players before that. Oddly though Kallis hasn't received quite that treatment as you implied. Whilst Kallis has just made a ton against Australia and is receiving praise, its actually 50/50. Some are rating him highly, others are criticising his slow rate. *shrugs*

Even better examples are Ramdin and Bravo, who are all of a sudden young champions. Don't get me wrong, because when you see performances like that you're entitled to rate them very highly and see them as very promising. But performances against one's own country or on TV which you happen to watch doesn't make that player the best in the world. Cricket goes on in other parts of the world too. I mean I bet many people who have replied to this post haven't seen any of Dravid (perhaps other than the Super Series) in 2005. He played against Pakistan and SL, but his performances there might not have been seen. Whereas say some Australian and English fans would have witnessed Ponting be in absolutely superb form against WI & SA, and then when you think they would have seen him in all 5 Ashes tests, its just natural for one to think that what they see recently (or what they see at all) is what is best.

Hell in some argument regarding Warne vs. Murali some people admitted to not seeing much of Murali other than the Super Test. I mean really, its not their fault if one doesn't have access to pay TV or whatever, but it doesn't exactly put you in a position to judge who is a better player in a debate.

Very well put, Jono

 

[honestbharani]

I think Rahul will go on to be a better captain than Punter. But as a batter, I would put Ponting very very slightly ahead of Rahul, juz the same way I put Murali before Warne.

 

[Pratters]

I think Rahul will go on to be a better captain than Punter.

Its not that difficult to be a better captain than Ponting!

 

[SJS]

Its not that difficult to be a better captain than Ponting!

Okay we will modify that.

Rahul is a fairly decent captain. Ponting is quite indecent

 

[Tom Halsey]

That's a myth...there's an assumption that unless a pitch is good for seamers (which a few Indian pitches are these days anyway) it's flat...Indian pitches are probably harder to do well on than Australia. Australia pitches these days (with the exception of the current series) are extremely flat, which is a another reason why Australia have been so dominant...Warne and McGrath (particularly McGrath) are two of the best on pitches that offer little assistance.

Well if that is the case then C_C has been talking rubbish in the Warne - Murali thread. One or the other.

One thing I would say, over the course of their whole careers', I'd have Dravid by a whisker. At the moment, it's Ponting by a fair way (but he wouldn't be captain!)

 

[Tom Halsey]

Dravid is the one who has the better average in the last two years. nearly 59 vs 56 of Ponting. Just for comparison's sake -

Ponting
Dravid

Mat    I  NO  Runs HS1  HS2  HS3     Ave 100  50   0

unfiltered            99  164  22  7990 257  242  207   56.26  26  32   8
                      94  158  18  8003 270  233  222   57.16  20  39   6
filtered              25   47   7  2241 207  156  149   56.02   6  11   1
                      20   30   3  1586 270  160  135   58.74   4   8   4

v Australia            0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
                       6   11   2   319  91*  60   38   35.44   0   2   2
v Bangladesh           0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
                       2    2   0   160 160    0    -   80.00   1   0   1
v England              5    9   0   359 156   61   48   39.88   1   1   1
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
v ICC World XI         1    2   0   100  54   46    -   50.00   0   1   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
v India                2    4   0    95  47   25   12   23.75   0   0   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
v New Zealand          5    8   3   438 105   86*  68   87.60   1   3   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
v Pakistan             3    6   2   403 207   98   62* 100.75   1   2   0
                       6    9   0   642 270  135  110   71.33   3   1   1
v South Africa         2    4   0   252 117   71   53   63.00   1   2   0
                       2    3   1   181  80   54   47*  90.50   0   2   0
v Sri Lanka            4    8   0   265  92   45   28   33.12   0   1   0
                       2    3   0   109  53   32   24   36.33   0   1   0
v West Indies          3    6   2   329 149  104*  56   82.25   2   1   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
v Zimbabwe             0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
                       2    2   0   175  98   77    -   87.50   0   2   0

in Australia          13   25   5  1368 207  149  117   68.40   4   8   0
                       2    4   1   152  91*  38   23   50.66   0   1   1
in Bangladesh          0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
                       2    2   0   160 160    0    -   80.00   1   0   1
in England             5    9   0   359 156   61   48   39.88   1   1   1
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
in India               1    2   0    23  12   11    -   11.50   0   0   0
                      11   18   2   790 135  110   80   49.37   2   5   1
in New Zealand         3    5   2   293 105   86*  47*  97.66   1   1   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
in Pakistan            0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
                       3    4   0   309 270   33    6   77.25   1   0   1
in Sri Lanka           3    6   0   198  92   28   27   33.00   0   1   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
in Zimbabwe            0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
                       2    2   0   175  98   77    -   87.50   0   2   0

in Africa              0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
                       2    2   0   175  98   77    -   87.50   0   2   0
in Asia                4    8   0   221  92   28   27   27.62   0   1   0
                      16   24   2  1259 270  160  135   57.22   4   5   3
in Europe              5    9   0   359 156   61   48   39.88   1   1   1
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
in Oceania            16   30   7  1661 207  149  117   72.21   5   9   0
                       2    4   1   152  91*  38   23   50.66   0   1   1

home                  13   25   5  1368 207  149  117   68.40   4   8   0
                      11   18   2   790 135  110   80   49.37   2   5   1
away                  12   22   2   873 156  105   92   43.65   2   3   1
                       9   12   1   796 270  160   98   72.36   2   3   3

2004                  10   19   2   697  98   92   68   41.00   0   5   0
                      12   18   3   946 270  160   91*  63.06   2   4   3
2005                  15   28   5  1544 207  156  149   67.13   6   6   1
                       8   12   0   640 135  110   98   53.33   2   4   1

season 2003/04         4    8   0   270  92   47   28   33.75   0   1   0
                       4    6   1   438 270   91*  38   87.60   1   1   1
season 2004            1    2   0    67  45   22    -   33.50   0   0   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
season 2004/05         9   16   5   864 207  105   98   78.54   2   5   0
                      11   17   2   841 160  135  110   56.06   3   4   2
season 2005            5    9   0   359 156   61   48   39.88   1   1   1
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
season 2005/06         6   12   2   681 149  117  104*  68.10   3   4   0
                       5    7   0   307  98   77   53   43.85   0   3   1

as captain            24   45   7  2169 207  156  149   57.07   6  11   1
                       6   10   1   229  53   33   32   25.44   0   1   1
not as captain         1    2   0    72  47   25    -   36.00   0   0   0
                      14   20   2  1357 270  160  135   75.38   4   7   3

toss won              10   20   2   849 117   92   71   47.16   1   6   1
                      12   17   2  1158 270  160  135   77.20   4   4   2
toss lost             15   27   5  1392 207  156  149   63.27   5   5   0
                       8   13   1   428  80   77   60   35.66   0   4   2

toss won & batted      8   16   1   695 117   92   71   46.33   1   5   0
                       8   13   2   740 160  135  110   67.27   3   2   1
toss won & fielded     2    4   1   154  61   47*  46   51.33   0   1   1
                       4    4   0   418 270   98   50  104.50   1   2   1
toss lost & sent in    4    7   1   452 149  104*  98   75.33   2   1   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
toss lost & fielded   11   20   4   940 207  156  105   58.75   3   4   0
                       8   13   1   428  80   77   60   35.66   0   4   2

matches batting 1st   12   23   2  1147 149  117  104*  54.61   3   6   0
                       8   13   2   740 160  135  110   67.27   3   2   1
matches fielding 1st  13   24   5  1094 207  156  105   57.57   3   5   1
                      12   17   1   846 270   98   80   52.87   1   6   3

1st team innings      25   25   0  1268 207  149  117   50.72   4   6   0
                      20   20   1  1132 270  160  110   59.57   3   5   3
2nd team innings      23   22   7   973 156  104*  98   64.86   2   5   1
                      13   10   2   454 135   91*  60   56.75   1   3   1

1st match innings     12   12   0   639 149  117   92   53.25   2   3   0
                       8    8   1   434 160  110   38   62.00   2   0   0
2nd match innings     13   13   0   629 207  105   61   48.38   2   3   0
                      12   12   0   698 270   98   80   58.16   1   5   3
3rd match innings     12   12   2   556 104*  98   54   55.60   1   3   0
                       5    5   1   306 135   91*  53   76.50   1   2   1
4th match innings     11   10   5   417 156   86*  62*  83.40   1   2   1
                       8    5   1   148  60   47*  23   37.00   0   1   0

no follow-on          23   44   7  2183 207  156  149   59.00   6  11   1
                      18   28   3  1420 270  135  110   56.80   3   8   4
enforcing a follow-on  1    1   0     9   9    -    -    9.00   0   0   0
                       2    2   0   166 160    6    -   83.00   1   0   0
in team following on   1    2   0    49  48    1    -   24.50   0   0   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -

Opening                0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
                       1    1   0    24  24    -    -   24.00   0   0   0
3rd position          25   45   7  2161 207  156  149   56.86   6  10   1
                      18   26   3  1456 270  160  135   63.30   4   7   4
4th position           1    1   0    53  53    -    -   53.00   0   1   0
                       1    1   0    26  26    -    -   26.00   0   0   0
5th position           0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -
                       2    2   0    80  53   27    -   40.00   0   1   0
6th position           1    1   0    27  27    -    -   27.00   0   0   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -

bowled                 3    3   0   249 207   25   17   83.00   1   0   0   4%
                       7    7   0   476 270   98   80   68.00   1   2   2   9%
caught                18   24   0  1206 156  149  117   50.25   4   5   1  31%
                      13   15   0   768 160  135  110   51.20   3   3   1  19%
lbw                    8    8   0   194  71   56   25   24.25   0   2   0  10%
                       3    3   0   120  60   38   22   40.00   0   1   0   4%
run out                2    2   0    76  48   28    -   38.00   0   0   0   3%
                       2    2   0    53  53    0    -   26.50   0   1   1   3%
stumped                3    3   0   187  98   68   21   62.33   0   2   0   4%
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -   0%
not out                7    7   7   329 104*  86*  62*    -     1   2   0   9%
                       3    3   3   169  91*  47*  31*    -     0   1   0   4%

dismissed             25   40   0  1912 207  156  149   47.80   5   9   1
                      20   27   0  1417 270  160  135   52.48   4   7   4
not dismissed          7    7   7   329 104*  86*  62*    -     1   2   0
                       3    3   3   169  91*  47*  31*    -     0   1   0

matches won           16   31   7  1638 207  149  117   68.25   5   8   0
                      10   14   2  1118 270  160  135   93.16   4   4   1
matches drawn          6   10   0   470 156   71   53   47.00   1   2   0
                       5    6   1   291  91*  54   50   58.20   0   3   0
matches lost           3    6   0   133  61   48   12   22.16   0   1   1
                       5   10   0   177  60   33   23   17.70   0   1   3

won by an innings      1    1   0    51  51    -    -   51.00   0   1   0
                       5    5   0   513 270  160   77  102.60   2   1   1
won defending target   9   18   2   947 149  117  104*  59.18   3   4   0
                       3    6   1   380 135  110   53   76.00   2   1   0
won chasing target     6   12   5   640 207  105   86*  91.42   2   3   0
                       2    3   1   225  98   80   47* 112.50   0   2   0
lost defending targ.   2    4   0    84  61   12   11   21.00   0   1   1
                       4    8   0   144  60   23   22   18.00   0   1   2
lost chasing target    1    2   0    49  48    1    -   24.50   0   0   0
                       1    2   0    33  33    0    -   16.50   0   0   1

5 day matches         24   45   7  2141 207  156  149   56.34   6  10   1
                      19   28   3  1563 270  160  135   62.52   4   8   3
6 day matches          1    2   0   100  54   46    -   50.00   0   1   0
                       1    2   0    23  23    0    -   11.50   0   0   1

1st/Only Tests         8   15   2   844 149  104*  98   64.92   2   5   0
                       8   10   0   302  77   60   54   30.20   0   4   3
2nd Tests              8   15   3   482 117   68   62*  40.16   1   3   1
                       7   11   1   766 160  135  110   76.60   3   3   1
3rd Tests              5   10   2   736 207  156  105   92.00   3   3   0
                       3    5   0   331 270   22   21   66.20   1   0   0
4th Tests              3    6   0   144  48   47   25   24.00   0   0   0
                       2    4   2   187  91*  38   31*  93.50   0   1   0
5th Tests              1    1   0    35  35    -    -   35.00   0   0   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -

in series drawn        1    2   0    72  47   25    -   36.00   0   0   0
                       4    7   1   462 135  110   91*  77.00   2   2   0
in series won         17   32   7  1558 207  149  105   62.32   4   8   0
                      11   14   1   934 270  160   98   71.84   2   5   2
in series lost         5    9   0   359 156   61   48   39.88   1   1   1
                       5    9   1   190  60   31*  27   23.75   0   1   2
in series leads        2    4   0   252 117   71   53   63.00   1   2   0
                       0    -   -     -   -    -    -     -     -   -   -

Vs Australia Dravid's average has been 35. But Ponting is lucky not to have faced Australia.

Dravid averages 80 vs Bangladesh in 2 innings. Ponting hasnt faced them.

Dravid meanwhile hasnt faced England.

Dravid encashes on Zimbabwe while Ponting does not play them.

Dravid has the better average vs South Africa while Ponting has the better average vs Pakistan. The inning of Ponting in this match would mean his average vs South Africa will improve and that just shows how variable a 2 year analysis is.

Ponting has encashed on Windies while Dravid hasnt played them.

Both have performed poorly versus Sri Lanka.

Take Bangladesh and Zimbabwe out and Ponting's average is higher (though this is nitpicking, two runs isn't much) - but my figures were wrong, I didn't research them and took them from a Robertinho post earlier (which I misread as being stats from the last two years for some reason, but it was infact from their last fifty Tests). Still, a six run difference in 50 Tests is quite a lot.

 

[ohtani's jacket]

IMO, Ponting is the most valuable wicket in cricket... It's imperative that sides get him out early, & that's in both forms of the game... With all the criticism he's faced, it's remarkable that he's been able to turn his form around from that first year as captain, even if it's cost him his hair (or more of it.)

Dravid is his great contemporary, but at this rate, history will remember him much like it has Hammond to Bradman.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Most batsmen come into the peak of their careers when they've got a bit of experience. Comparing what they did against supposed "better bowlers" at the age of 21 - 25 is a bit fruitless, IMO.

 

[aussie]

looking at all the runs Ponting has made in the last couple of years, is he now a certainty in an all-time Aussie middle-order. I would think now that an all-time aussie top middle order it would be:

Harvey
Bradman
Chappel
Miller
Gilchrist

Could Ponting fit in their now?

 

[tooextracool]

I have seen this argument on these forums before but after Punters superb perfomances this year, i again wonder who is the better batsman between these 2 top-class blokes. Dravid admitedly seems more solid while Ponting is more destructive, but which one of those attributes makes either better than the other?.

Since Jan 1st 2002 Ponting has the best aggregate in tests 47 tests 4808 runs at an average 68.68 with 17 hundreds & 17 50's, when Dravid is 3rd 41 test 3746 runs at an 64.58 with 11 & 16 50's.Overall againts all the major test playing nations Ponting averages better than Dravid in all except England where Dravid averages 75 to Ponting 41, you can see their career summaries here:

1. Ponting: stats.cricinfo.com/guru?sdb=player;...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

2. Dravid:http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

When it comes to abilities againts various types of bowlers IMO i think Ponting is the better player of pace, but not by much. Againts top-quality spin (in helpful conditons) i'm not so sure, people tend to regard Ponting as a poor player of spin in helpful conditions simply because of that horrific series he had in India in 2001 & a not so dominant performance their in 98, but i remember in 99 in SRI where he played Murali very well & was australia's best batsman on tour. Also the fact that since that 2001 series for all those who have seen a lot of Ponting especially the SRI series in 200 can agree he looks a better player of spin, he just hasn't had much opputunities to prove that. Dravid may be slightly better in this category but even him isn't that great againts spin, i've seen his struggles againts Warne in the past & i've never heard of any occassion when Dravid has been dominant againts any top class spinner, but i'll leave it here at 1-1.

Now for who is the better #3, Ponting is 3rd on the all-time list with at average of 63.72 with 19 centuries & 20 fifties from 60 test, only bettered by Bradman who averages 103.63 their and Hammond 74. While Dravid isn't that far behind with an average of 60.91 in 77 test with 17 centuries & 31 fifties. Not much i can gather from that other than Dravid is probably a bit more consistent due to the fact that he has 14 more 50's. I have seen a fair bit of them & both a very vulnerable early on Ponting more so to ball moving away from him on off-stump & Dravid coming in, but its very though to seperate these two in either field. What are your views....

my answer to this question hasnt changed....dravid big gap kallis and then ponting. i dont understand how it is 'very tough' to separate a player who averages 12.29 after 8 tests in India from someone whos scored consistently everywhere in the world. Ponting can go on to score as many runs as he wants in a year, but the question about his ability against spin on turners and more specifically the question about his ability in india will remain until he manages to answer it.

 

[tooextracool]

In ODIs he has scored 1903 runs @ 42.28 with 5 100s and 10 50s, and he has a few in India. So it is not as though he can't bat there. He had a dreadfull run in 2001 - everbody haves them, on his last tour before that, he hadn't matured as much as he has now, and in 2004 he was out for three Tests with a broken thumb and when he came back on a dodgy wicket.

wow an excuse for all 3 times hes played in India and failed. next you'll come up with enough excuses to explain how avishka gunawardhene is test class.....

 

[aussie]

my answer to this question hasnt changed....dravid big gap kallis and then ponting. i dont understand how it is 'very tough' to separate a player who averages 12.29 after 8 tests in India from someone whos scored consistently everywhere in the world. Ponting can go on to score as many runs as he wants in a year, but the question about his ability against spin on turners and more specifically the question about his ability in india will remain until he manages to answer it.

i'm not denying that but has i have said before if you have seen Ponting play spin on turners recently eg SRI 2004 he has improved a whole lot, its disappointing he didn't get to play againts India in 2004 fully because i reckoned he could have done fairly well. Also its not like Dravid has any great record playing spin on turners either.

Also Kallis over Ponting, he may be more solid & harder to get out, but overall Ponting gets the nod IMO.

 

[social]

my answer to this question hasnt changed....dravid big gap kallis and then ponting. i dont understand how it is 'very tough' to separate a player who averages 12.29 after 8 tests in India from someone whos scored consistently everywhere in the world. Ponting can go on to score as many runs as he wants in a year, but the question about his ability against spin on turners and more specifically the question about his ability in india will remain until he manages to answer it.

How do you rate Dravid so clearly over Kallis?

Similar records.

Kallis has a better technique and is arguably better against pace.

Dravid is arguably better against spin.

 

[tooextracool]

1) There's 6 runs difference in their averages in the last two years. Considering India generally has flatter pitches than Australia too (seam-wise) Ponting wins quite easily.

oh what garbage, until the recent series against SA almost every game in australia was on an absolute road. at least indian wickets offer something for the spinners, whereas the australian wickets offered almost nothing for any type of bowler.

 

[tooextracool]

i'm not denying that but has i have said before if you have seen Ponting play spin on turners recently eg SRI 2004 he has improved a whole lot, its disappointing he didn't get to play againts India in 2004 fully because i reckoned he could have done fairly well..

and there is absolutely no evidence to suggest it. like it or not, its simply impossibly to claim something like he can play well in india because from what you've seen from him recently hes fairly good against spin. fact is that hes had ample number of chances to get a half decent score in india and hes failed every single time. no player can be considered capable of correcting a wrong until he actually does it.

Also its not like Dravid has any great record playing spin on turners either.

and his record in which country is anywhere near as miserable as 12.26?
dravid may not be great against spin, but at least hes fairly good against it, which is not the same that can be said about ponting. at the end of the day, the difference between dravid against pace and ponting against pace is nowhere near as big as the difference between ponting against spin and dravid against spin.

Also Kallis over Ponting, he may be more solid & harder to get out, but overall Ponting gets the nod IMO.

kallis is better for the same reason that dravid is better than ponting, because he hasnt ever made a joke of himself anywhere in the world.

 

[tooextracool]

How do you rate Dravid so clearly over Kallis?

Similar records.

Kallis has a better technique and is arguably better against pace.

Dravid is arguably better against spin.

similar records?
rounding 39.5 to 40, dravid averages at least 40 against every country in the world and in every country.kallis meanwhile has three below 40 averages, against australia, pakistan and Sl. Kallis also averages below 40 in England, pakistan and SL. for an extremely large portion of his career kallis was almost incompetent against spin, and while in the last few years hes started to rectify that, as shown above its still clearly visible in his records.

 

[Slats4ever]

meh who cares tooextracool. you can think as passionately as you want about it. Fact is Ponting has made over 1500 test runs in a calendar year, and is making you look like even more blind in 2006.