The better batsman the bettter #3 Ponting vs Dravid

[Top_Cat]

The odd thing is, in the 2001 series where he really looked very ordinary being dismissed by Harbhajan 5 times in 5 innings, Kumble was injured and didn't play. So he really didn't even face quality spin from both ends (Raju and whoever else played that series are far from quality spin).

Remember it well. The look in Ponting's eyes when he came out in the final Test said it all; he was mentally shot. Harbi had a hold of him and both of them knew it. I remember him hitting a six straight and his expression barely changed (it was significant because with that one shot I think he doubled his aggregate!) because I'm sure he knew as soon as Harbi came on, he was gone. Sure enough, soon afterwards he played with hard-hands at a fizzing toppie and popped the ball up to short-leg. Inevitable barely describes it. Again, his expression didn't change a bit. It was quite sad because he'd come into the series hitting the ball reasonably well, without brilliant results (other than 90-odd in Adelaide) in the home series against the WI and looked due for some serious runs. Unfortunately, he was really due for a poor run.

It some ways, 2001 was watershed for Punter; I think he had to meditate on the fact that this time it wasn't the conditions, the weather, lack of preparation or just poor form which undid him. It was a guy who was just far too good. Harbi was in world-class form for the whole series bar the first-innings of the first Test and he absolutely wrecked Ponting.

 

[Anil]

1. Whether he's Aus or not is totally irrelevant, he's simply one of the greatest cricketers ever. In terms of spin bowling, only Murali comes close and his deficiencies in batting and fielding mean Warne will always get the nod before him IMO.

murali rivals warne in terms of bowling and there are good arguments pointing to him being better whatever you might think....he is not as good as warne with the bat but has always been a brilliant fielder.....as to warne being one of the greatest cricketers in this era and an all-time great, i totally agree but regarding placing him in the pantheon of the greatest ever, we will have to agree to disagree...

2. Nobody's perfect.

never said anyone is or had to be....

3. There was hardly a decent spinner produced world-wide for 15 years before Warne. Off the top of my head, Qadir (who wasnt a patch on Warne), Doshi, and Iqbal Qasim were about it. Warne came along when most people were toally sick of seeing fast bowlers operating at 10 overs per hour and bombarding batsmen incessantly. Not only did he remind people that spinning existed but he bowled leg-spin better than anyone in history and with enough flair that people actually came to a ground to watch him bowl.

4. How the others bring greater respectability is beyond me.

Murali's career has been mired in controversy from day one and the others are simply not as good.

they are all very good bowlers, none of them except murali can be compared to him and i never attempted to do so....my point was that they all had significant roles to play in revitalizing spin bowling, you seem to credit just warne for that and i disagree...

5. Probably belongs there as much as anyone bar Bradman.

i find that quite an absurd statement, but each to his own i guess....

From memory, Richards was also selected. There was a thread here recently where his greatness was questioned. Many people used stats to show that this player or that was better. Having lived through his career and the beginnings of Warne, theyre both reasonable choices.

i have never questioned richards' greatness, having been witness to quite a few of his magnificent innings...regarding whether he fits into the select 5 greatest ever, that's another discussion altogether....

 

[Jono]

Remember it well. The look in Ponting's eyes when he came out in the final Test said it all; he was mentally shot. Harbi had a hold of him and both of them knew it. I remember him hitting a six straight and his expression barely changed (it was significant because with that one shot I think he doubled his aggregate!) because I'm sure he knew as soon as Harbi came on, he was gone. Sure enough, soon afterwards he played with hard-hands at a fizzing toppie and popped the ball up to short-leg. Inevitable barely describes it. Again, his expression didn't change a bit. It was quite sad because he'd come into the series hitting the ball reasonably well, without brilliant results (other than 90-odd in Adelaide) in the home series against the WI and looked due for some serious runs. Unfortunately, he was really due for a poor run.

It some ways, 2001 was watershed for Punter; I think he had to meditate on the fact that this time it wasn't the conditions, the weather, lack of preparation or just poor form which undid him. It was a guy who was just far too good. Harbi was in world-class form for the whole series bar the first-innings of the first Test and he absolutely wrecked Ponting.

I remember one innings during that test when, if my memory serves me correct, Ponting was first dropped and then I think was given a life by the umpire, whether that be a bat-pad catch not given or a plumb lbw I can't quite remember. Either way, Harbhajan ended up getting him a few balls later.

It really is a shame that those two didn't get to battle it out properly in the 2004 series, because it would have been great. Yes the Hayden vs. Harbhajan battle was the main Indian bowler vs. Australian batsman battle seeing as both did excellently in the 2001 series, but Harbhajan vs. Ponting would have been superb. Also, Harbhajan only played one test during India's visit to Australia in 2003/04. So basically, since the 2001 series Harbhajan has only bowled to Ponting in 2 test matches out of 8. A damn shame.

 

[social]

murali rivals warne in terms of bowling and there are good arguments pointing to him being better whatever you might think....he is not as good as warne with the bat but has always been a brilliant fielder.....as to warne being one of the greatest cricketers in this era and an all-time great, i totally agree but regarding placing him in the pantheon of the greatest ever, we will have to agree to disagree...



never said anyone is or had to be....



they are all very good bowlers, none of them except murali can be compared to him and i never attempted to do so....my point was that they all had significant roles to play in revitalizing spin bowling, you seem to credit just warne for that and i disagree...



i find that quite an absurd statement, but each to his own i guess....



i have never questioned richards' greatness, having been witness to quite a few of his magnificent innings...regarding whether he fits into the select 5 greatest ever, that's another discussion altogether....

The decision was announced in April, 2000.

It was voted on by 100 journalists and ex-test cricketers.

At that point in time, Warne was regarded as possibly the greatest bowler ever and indeed was the only specialist bowler selected.

The panel also gave him credit for revitalising the "dying art" of spin bowling and playing a large role in pulling cricket out of the doldrums faced in the 90s.

If a similar vote was taken today, who knows who would be selected.

 

[Anil]

The decision was announced in April, 2000.

It was voted on by 100 journalists and ex-test cricketers.

At that point in time, Warne was regarded as possibly the greatest bowler ever and indeed was the only specialist bowler selected.

The panel also gave him credit for revitalising the "dying art" of spin bowling and playing a large role in pulling cricket out of the doldrums faced in the 90s.

If a similar vote was taken today, who knows who would be selected.

i know all that....just don't agree with this particular decision, that's all.....

 

[miscer]

ponting just ahead for me.

BUT if things continue the way they have been going with dravid rediscovering the spark and ponting fading then they'll prob. end up more or less equal at the end of their careers.

 

[hang on]

still ponting. there was an itimidation factor that he had which makes up for a lot. that said, if ponting keeps failing....through the indian series, then i do not see him being picked again. and if dravid has a tendulkaresque renaissance, then i might, just, recalibrate my views.

 

[bagapath]

tough, tough call. ponting slightly ahead. but dravid's epic match winning knocks in headingly, rawalpindi, kingston, adelaide and kolkata definitely place him among the greatest batsmen of all time.

 

[ankitj]

Hmm. If Dravid continues his mini-resurgence and Ponting continues to fail for a more prolonged period, Dravid might push ahead.

 

[weldone]

As I said in some other thread, it's mighty close for me atm among the 4 of Ponting, Kallis, Dravid and Sehwag. It's so close among them that I would rather wait for all 4 of them to retire before choosing one among the 4 ahead of anyone else.

 

[centurymaker]

Ponting>Kallis>Dravid>Sehwag

though dravid probably deserves to be equal with kallis because he's played more crucial knocks and more knocks in difficult conditions etc.

 

[kyear2]

The decision was announced in April, 2000.

It was voted on by 100 journalists and ex-test cricketers.

At that point in time, Warne was regarded as possibly the greatest bowler ever and indeed was the only specialist bowler selected.

The panel also gave him credit for revitalising the "dying art" of spin bowling and playing a large role in pulling cricket out of the doldrums faced in the 90s.

If a similar vote was taken today, who knows who would be selected.

I know not totally related, but
Bradman, Sobers, Warne, Tendulkar, Marshall.

 

[kyear2]

On topic, first thing is to remember both players in their prime, once we get there Ponting was so much more dominating as a batsman, but Dravid had so many match winning innings that you have to give him the slight advantage.

 

[Cevno]

Ponting > Dravid right now for me.

Dravid has a chance to catch up though.

 

[hang on]

On topic, first thing is to remember both players in their prime, once we get there Ponting was so much more dominating as a batsman, but Dravid had so many match winning innings that you have to give him the slight advantage.

ponting has also played a large number of match winning innings, whatever that means.

 

[miscer]

Dravid u legend. While this knock wasn't at #3 dravid inches closer to ponting. A centimeter under ponting I'd say. Want to call it even tbh.

 

[akilana]

Dravid u legend. While this knock wasn't at #3 dravid inches closer to ponting. A centimeter under ponting I'd say. Want to call it even tbh.

applying the logic used in the AB vs Cook thread.. Dravid > Ponting because Ponting is younger and has more hundreds.

 

[Ikki]

Dravid is an all-time great but he'll always be slightly below his contemporaries Lara, Ponting and Sachin for me. Much like how Miandad was below Chappell, Richards and Gavaskar.

 

[akilana]

as good as dravid is, he has to do a lot more to join the elite lara, sachin and hashim amla

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Is there any reason why this wasn't a poll beyond the fact that aussie was probably too stupid to work out how to do one?