The better batsman the bettter #3 Ponting vs Dravid

[Hodgo7]

my point is that until he proves himself in India i cant assume that hes anywhere near as good as Dravid or that he can play spin convincingly(given that his only successful series in the subcontinent came before he made an absolute joke of himself in India in 2001).

and has Dravid proven himself in every country ?

 

[aussie]

now i'd highly doubt that in a few balls against harbhajan he proved so much of his capabilities against spin in India.

well no, just refering that point to Harbhajan, where he did play him much better in the few balls he faced that in 2001.

 

[luckyeddie]

no the problem is that you and others fail to read my posts properly.

No, the REAL problem is that you take yourself (or what you post here) far, far too seriously. I'm not going to make that mistake any more - granted, I used to.

That doesn't mean that I'm going to ignore what you say - far from it - I'm just going to have a giggle.

Don't worry - it's all I'm good for.

 

[Tom Halsey]

oh what garbage, until the recent series against SA almost every game in australia was on an absolute road. at least indian wickets offer something for the spinners, whereas the australian wickets offered almost nothing for any type of bowler.

Indian wickets offer much more to spinenrs than Australia, granted.

Australia offers more to seamers (bounce is quite important to seamers, naturally).

 

[viktor]

and has Dravid proven himself in every country ?

In which country has he bombed as spectacularly as Ponting in India?

 

[Sanz]

In which country has he bombed as spectacularly as Ponting in India?

In Australia Vs. Mcgrath/Warne. His avg is <15.

 

[viktor]

In Australia Vs. Mcgrath/Warne. His avg is <15.

so, in a specific country against a specfic bowling attack. That does not, in my opinion, qualify as a weakness, just that those two bowlers sorted him out.
Ponting has failed in India consistently against different attacks. Such a failure, would indicate that he does have a weakness against spin.

 

[thierry henry]

4th Test in Sydney, 2003/04 - 2nd innings.

91 runs off 114 balls. That's some quick scoring my friend.

http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2003-04/IND_IN_AUS/SCORECARDS/IND_AUS_T4_02-06JAN2004.html

Thanks Jono. A lot of posters here could learn a lot from you.

Now I'm just waiting for a Kallis fan (does he have any?) to show me an innings where he scored quickly when needed. It must have happened at least once. Until I can have any sort of proof that Dravid is markedly better at this than Kallis, I'll rely on the uncannily similar career strike rates thankyou very much.

 

[Sanz]

so, in a specific country against a specfic bowling attack. That does not, in my opinion, qualify as a weakness, just that those two bowlers sorted him out.
Ponting has failed in India consistently against different attacks. Such a failure, would indicate that he does have a weakness against spin.

I think same can be said about Ponting as well, his failure has come mostly against Kumble/Harbhajan on turning wickets. If Ponting's weakness against spin was so glaring then he wouldn't have had scores 141, 150 against the likes of Saqlain and Kaneria. If he was so poor against spin then how did he manage scores like 92, 96, 51, 105 against Murali in Sri Lanka ?

Lastly, Do we ever take Warnie's success away from him (and say that he is not as good as any spinner ever to play the game) because of the fact that he has consistently struggled against India on any kind of pitches for full 14-15 years ?? Does that make Warnie any less of a great bowler ?

To be very frank Ponting is one of the premier batsmen post 2000 and IMO is right on top with Dravid followed by the likes of Lara, SRT, Kallis, Sehwag, Inzi etc. Dravid is mariginally better than him against spin and Ponting slightly better against pace.

 

[Sanz]

8 tests spread over 8 years is completely different.

Are you crazy or what ? Ponting played only one test in 2004 on a mine field like pitch in Mumbai. Where everyone including Dravid, SRT etc struggled against the likes of Hauritz and Clark.

 

[aussie]

If Ponting's weakness against spin was so glaring then he wouldn't have had scores 141, 150 against the likes of Saqlain and Kaneria. If he was so poor against spin then how did he manage scores like 92, 96, 51, 105 against Murali in Sri Lanka ?

Lastly, Do we ever take Warnie's success away from him (and say that he is not as good as any spinner ever to play the game) because of the fact that he has consistently struggled against India on any kind of pitches for full 14-15 years ?? Does that make Warnie any less of a great bowler ?

To be very frank Ponting is one of the premier batsmen post 2000 and IMO is right on top with Dravid followed by the likes of Lara, SRT, Kallis, Sehwag, Inzi etc. Dravid is mariginally better than him against spin and Ponting slightly better against pace.

well said sanz, couldn't agree more..

 

[Slats4ever]

Beating the Bookies 101

1. Log on to Cricket Web
2. Identify all posts by TEC
3. Determine which players come in for the most criticism
4. Go to bookies
5. Bet on those same players to score centuries, take hat-tricks, invent time-travel, be reincarnations of Elvis
6. Profit.

My mate put $20 on Ponting to reinvent time travel at a misely 2 to 1. Obviously the guy can do anything.

 

[luckyeddie]

My mate put $20 on Ponting to reinvent time travel at a misely 2 to 1. Obviously the guy can do anything.

Those Irish bookies (Paddy Power) run books on everything - even down to what type of crockery the players eat their breakfast off.

Mind you, in Ponting's case, it was easy.

When offered a plate he replied We'll have a bowl, mate

 

[Slats4ever]

haha. I heard a story on the radio of a toss at a test match between Australia and NZ when Greg Chappell was captain. It was mentioned on the radio during the test.

It was a 42 degree adelaide day on an absolute road of a pitch. Surely the perfect batting conditions. The toss came down the way of Chappell and he said to the NZ captain "You can have a bat". What followed was silence as the NZ guy couldn't believe it and both players started walking off the ground together. Half way back to the pavillion Chappell laughed in the guys ear and said "after us mate"

 

[Jason_M]

The fact is he (Ponting) has had the cattle around him throughout his career, i would like to see how he goes when Warne and McGrath retire and Hayden, Langer and Gilchrist get on in years, then he might understand the meaning of the word pressure.

 

[Sanz]

And obviously Dravid has had no support from the likes of Tendulkar, Laxman, Ganguly, Sehwag, Azhar, Srinath, Kumble etc.

 

[marc71178]

well probably i cant remember too clearly myself but i do remember the times he faced Kumble & Harbhajan especially (his nemisis of 2001) in the 1st innings he played him MUCH better.

5 balls he faced from Harbhajan.
3 balls he faced from Kumble (who dismissed him)

How does that small sample show anything?!

 

[marc71178]

My mate put $20 on Ponting to reinvent time travel at a misely 2 to 1. Obviously the guy can do anything.

Is that to go back to Edgbaston and bat first?

 

[viktor]

I think same can be said about Ponting as well, his failure has come mostly against Kumble/Harbhajan on turning wickets. If Ponting's weakness against spin was so glaring then he wouldn't have had scores 141, 150 against the likes of Saqlain and Kaneria. If he was so poor against spin then how did he manage scores like 92, 96, 51, 105 against Murali in Sri Lanka ?.

Mostly against and only against is the difference. Splitting hairs, I know..but they are that close.

[/QUOTE]
Lastly, Do we ever take Warnie's success away from him (and say that he is not as good as any spinner ever to play the game) because of the fact that he has consistently struggled against India on any kind of pitches for full 14-15 years ?? Does that make Warnie any less of a great bowler ? .[/QUOTE]
No. We don't hold it against Warne (atleast most of us don't). However, India is a bit of a blot on his resume and he would be the first to admit that he would like to have a better record there.

[/QUOTE]
To be very frank Ponting is one of the premier batsmen post 2000 and IMO is right on top with Dravid followed by the likes of Lara, SRT, Kallis, Sehwag, Inzi etc. Dravid is mariginally better than him against spin and Ponting slightly better against pace.[/QUOTE]
Agree. But the topic of the thread is who is the better between him and Dravid.

 

[Sanz]

Mostly against and only against is the difference. Splitting hairs, I know..but they are that close.

Okay, then let me change that to 'Only against'. Ponting has struggled only against Kumble/Harbhajan. Ponting has had more success against Murali, Saqlain etc whereas Dravid has been pretty ordinary against Saqlain & Mushtaq, Warne etc

No. We don't hold it against Warne (atleast most of us don't). However, India is a bit of a blot on his resume and he would be the first to admit that he would like to have a better record there.

I wonder why the same logic cant be used against Ponting.

Agree. But the topic of the thread is who is the better between him and Dravid.

IMO, the only way it can be decided is by flipping a COIN. Flip one, Heads Ponting, Tails Dravid. If you get Heads, Keep flipping until you get Tails.