The Best Team Man

[Athlai]

for many years, he was not in talking terms with jeremey coney, his skipper. they would walk past each other without a word after coney pouched another blinder in the slips off hadlee's bowling. paddles was a self centered cricketer. that served new zealand very well. but i wont call him a "team man".

Yeah this is very true. An ATG but he was a pretty self centred cricketer.

 

[weldone]

I am a fan of Rahul Dravid...did stand by his inclusion in the team 4-5 months ago when almost every Indian supporter in the CW was after his head...did also predict that he'll be playing test cricket till 2013 and everybody laughed their arses off...

Now suddenly he has 2 great series and everybody can't hold their love for the wall.

(not directed at new members like sumantra, mind you!)

 

[bagapath]

petulance doesnt help in team sports. the fact that hadlee was exceptionally talented has got nothing to do with this thread.

if "doing the bulk of the bowling without any support" is your criteria then muralitharan should be your first pick.

 

[weldone]

if "doing the bulk of the bowling without any support" is your criteria then muralitharan should be your first pick.

'doing the bulk of the bowling without any support' is tougher for a fast bowler, surely?

 

[OMM!]

Being world class doesn't necessarily mean you are a team man.

A team man is someone who does his job to the absolute best of his ability at all times and doesn't put milestones or personal glory ahead of the team's situation.

Players like Bresnan and Prior are perfect examples of this.

 

[bagapath]

'doing the bulk of the bowling without any support' is tougher for a fast bowler, surely?

i agree. but it is definitely tougher on the team when the fast bowler is sulking throughout.

 

[Camo999]

Lee is a good shout. With batting as much as bowling. From KC:


Just about anybody who bowls over after over of body-breaking 90+ stuff is putting in a ridiculous amount of effort for the team. And should probably get this ahead of any batsman, because relatively speaking, batsmen are immensely soft. .

Yes, sort of agree in this case - Big Merv for my nomination. Great team man - popular with teammates, always lifted the mood in the dressing room. Kept bowling through pain - his efforts on a stuffed knee in '93 ensured we retained the Ashes and also pretty much finished his own career.

 

[vic_orthdox]

for many years, he was not in talking terms with jeremey coney, his skipper. they would walk past each other without a word after coney pouched another blinder in the slips off hadlee's bowling. paddles was a self centered cricketer. that served new zealand very well. but i wont call him a "team man".

Keeping prizes to himself and not sharing them with the team, breaking an agreement made at the start of the series..

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

Just about anybody who bowls over after over of body-breaking 90+ stuff is putting in a ridiculous amount of effort for the team. And should probably get this ahead of any batsman, because relatively speaking, batsmen are immensely soft.

They wear body armour, they have nightwatchmen - bowlers, of course - because they are afraid of the dark, they have runners to do half their job for them when they get a bit of cramp. Or when they have to bat with a mildly twisted ankle we all wince at the horror of jogging a single.

Of course there are exceptions, such as Dravid, but they just stand out compared to the rest. This makes them look exceptional just for doing their job, and people end up missing the significance of a Flintoff or Tait permanently turning their own knees into cheese spread for the sake of their side, and doing it day in, day out for years.

What a post! Take a bow, sir. I agree completely.


Anyone who's bowled quick over a long career is golden, in my book. On that note, I'd hereby place Courtney Walsh, Glenn McGrath and Kapil Dev on top of my list.

Bagapath articulated beautifully why Walsh (and Marshall) should be considered teammen par excellence. McGrath and Kapil (the latter in particular) had an amazing fitness record and the fact that they could play so many successive tests is commendable. Considering the rigours that fast bowling paces on the body, it's almost unbelievable.

In Kapil's case, he had to play through injuries many times (all six tests of the 1983-84 West Indian home tour, for instance) because he knew fully well that in his absence, the attack wouldn't even challenge a club batting line-up. That, in addition to his batting and captaincy burden, and the fact that he never ran away from responsibility underlines his dedication towards Indian cricket. Top bloke who overused (perhaps abused, to an extent) his body so that his side could stay competitive.

Dennis Lillee and Imran Khan are noteworthy names for battling career-threatening injuries which could have destroyed many a lesser man. Both bowled top pace and especially having read about Lillee's fitness regime (after the injury in 1973), I have nothing but the highest respect for the amount of work they put in for their teams. It's rare to find such men of pride and dedication to excellence in the IPL w****dom generation of cricketers, IMHO!

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

Someone mentioned my bowling idol R.J.Hadlee here.

As much as it pains me to say it, the truth is that Paddles was never a team man in the true sense of the term. Neither for New Zealand, nor for Nottingham or any other team he played in. He was amazingly skilled with the ball and that's how he became the attack leader. IMHO, he could have held his own in any attack, but in that depleted Kiwi setup, his stature was magnified even more.

Numbers and a personal pursuit of excellence motivated the man more than anything. He believed that he was good enough to run through top batting line-ups (and he was right) and it was this personal standard of excellence which kept him going despite mediocrity all around him.

It's difficult to explain. When you know that you'd be picking up wickets at 19 runs apiece over the best part of a decade and yet your side is going to be thrashed series after series, I guess your priorities change after a while. Numbers assume more importance than team results - especially when you feel that half the men in that outfit aren't fit for international cricket.

Muralitharan is a proper example of a one-man demolition squad who was also a fine team-man.



P.S.: Ftr, this is just my personal interpretation of things. Not Gospel stated facts. Completely subjective, obviously.

 

[GotSpin]

Lee is a good shout. With batting as much as bowling. From KC:



Just about anybody who bowls over after over of body-breaking 90+ stuff is putting in a ridiculous amount of effort for the team. And should probably get this ahead of any batsman, because relatively speaking, batsmen are immensely soft.

They wear body armour, they have nightwatchmen - bowlers, of course - because they are afraid of the dark, they have runners to do half their job for them when they get a bit of cramp. Or when they have to bat with a mildly twisted ankle we all wince at the horror of jogging a single.

Of course there are exceptions, such as Dravid, but they just stand out compared to the rest. This makes them look exceptional just for doing their job, and people end up missing the significance of a Flintoff or Tait permanently turning their own knees into cheese spread for the sake of their side, and doing it day in, day out for years.

Lee would be a good shout if he was actually useful for more than a couple years together (tests obviously)

IMO, Walsh is probably one of the best examples of a team man. He just kept bowling year in year out at a bloody excellent rate. Even in his last years he still held the attack somewhat together when Ambrose departed

 

[Z-Man]

Sachin Tendulkar - Sorry thats a troll

 

[bagapath]

Dennis Lillee and Imran Khan are noteworthy names for battling career-threatening injuries which could have destroyed many a lesser man. Both bowled top pace and especially having read about Lillee's fitness regime (after the injury in 1973), I have nothing but the highest respect for the amount of work they put in for their teams. It's rare to find such men of pride and dedication to excellence in the IPL w****dom generation of cricketers, IMHO!

lillee was disdainful towards his skipper kim highes, played politics to undermine his authority. in cahoots with rod marsh - thats not my idea of a team man.

imran was not comfortable playing under anyone else. it could be because he was from a feudal setup and a privileged back ground or it could be because the other pak cricketers during his time were genuinely inferior to him. nevertheless, he was a man of authority. not what we are talking about in this thread.

both were awesome awesome cricketers though

 

[Athlai]

I reckon people underrate Hadlee's support somewhat. He had a fair few Test standard bowlers for substantial portions of his career.

Chatfield was a mighty fine bowler and so was Lance Cairns. Both of whom played around 40 Tests with him taking 100+ wickets at 32. John Bracewell didn't disgrace himself either with 95 @ 34.77.

Hadlee even got an eighth of his games with Collinge who took 50 at 27.

Paddles played over half his Test career with decent support and not many people seem to acknowledge it. Certainly seems to have had more Test standard bowlers at his side than Murali.

 

[smash84]

What a post! Take a bow, sir. I agree completely.


Anyone who's bowled quick over a long career is golden, in my book. On that note, I'd hereby place Courtney Walsh, Glenn McGrath and Kapil Dev on top of my list.

Bagapath articulated beautifully why Walsh (and Marshall) should be considered teammen par excellence. McGrath and Kapil (the latter in particular) had an amazing fitness record and the fact that they could play so many successive tests is commendable. Considering the rigours that fast bowling paces on the body, it's almost unbelievable.

In Kapil's case, he had to play through injuries many times (all six tests of the 1983-84 West Indian home tour, for instance) because he knew fully well that in his absence, the attack wouldn't even challenge a club batting line-up. That, in addition to his batting and captaincy burden, and the fact that he never ran away from responsibility underlines his dedication towards Indian cricket. Top bloke who overused (perhaps abused, to an extent) his body so that his side could stay competitive.

Dennis Lillee and Imran Khan are noteworthy names for battling career-threatening injuries which could have destroyed many a lesser man. Both bowled top pace and especially having read about Lillee's fitness regime (after the injury in 1973), I have nothing but the highest respect for the amount of work they put in for their teams. It's rare to find such men of pride and dedication to excellence in the IPL w****dom generation of cricketers, IMHO!

Another Excellent post OSP and even though I am the biggest Imran () fan on the forum I must admit that he wasn't exactly a team man. He led the team like a general or king if you like (the original King Khan I should say). The players were scared ****less of him.

 

[Dan]

Surprised at the lack of Andy Bichel so far. Incredible team man - did everything ever asked of him and never complained, despite a stunning lack of opportunities. Deserved a lot more than his 14(?) tests.

 

[Daemon]

People mixing up team player with good player here. There is no way for an outsider to know whether any player is making sacrifices for the team or doing it for personal gain or both.