The best batsman and bowler of the 1990s

[honestbharani]

SJS and his stats

There is a difference between using stats intelligently along with an understanding of the game, which I am always for, and between looking up past scorecards on cricinfo and deciding that a batsman did/did not play well... I am sure you, of all people, understand that, Ikki..

 

[Ilovecric]

Look here I dont disagree with the point you are trying to make that current bowling standards are low but you are not going to win an argument based on the premise that fewer runs are being scored this decade.

I can inundate you with stats to prove that

Okay let me tell you something else.

Every single Test playing country (not counting Bangladesh and Zimbabwe)has had a good increase in average runs scored per wicket. Only West Indies have remained at the same level and the reasons are nor difficult to see.. Have a look.

Batting averages

[B]Country	1990's	2000's[/B]

AUS	33.1	40.5
ENG	28.0	32.3
IND	33.1	35.3
NZL	27.4	29.7
PAK	29.0	32.9
SAF	31.6	35.9
SRL	28.9	34.8
WIN	27.9	27.9

[B]OVERALL	29.8	33.6[/B]

Of course these are figures concerning all batsmen including tailenders. The figures of batsmen from number 1 to 7 in the batting order are even more impressive in their positive change.

The number of centuries are now coming 38 % faster (in terms of innings) than they were in the previous decade.

Centuries per 100 innings

[B]Country	1990's	2000's	% change[/B]

AUS	5.9	9.6	61.1
ENG	4.1	6.1	49.4
IND	6.5	6.1	-6.0
NZL	3.0	4.3	43.7
PAK	4.7	6.8	43.0
SAF	4.7	6.8	45.5
SRL	4.4	6.7	52.3
WIN	3.9	4.6	18.3

[B]OVERALL	4.6	6.4	38.4[/B]

Trust me there is no criteria by which you can show that batsmen were faring better in the 90's compared to the current decade.

Good night.

I'm not saying more runs weren't scored in this decade, but who scored them ? Players who came from the 90s or new players who started playing after 2000 ?

I think if we look at the stats of players who began playing recently their records would be poor even tho they're playing in favourable conditions and are given better cricketing gears.

Thanks for your info tho, really appreciate it.

 

[subshakerz]

Check dale steyn, he only has consistent speed, and all these 30s avg batsmen are just falling over. I think steyn's strike rate is in the 30s, which is crazy!!! THats because batsmen aren't use good bowling these days. At the end of the day anything after 2000 should be taken with a grain of salt.

I dont think you should shortchange Steyn. The fact is he is playing is a heavily batting-dominated era against teams with at least 2-3 batsmen averaging 45+. His fantastic record goes to his credit, and he is much more than just pace.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Reckon Ambrose and McGrath are pretty close to unseperable. Couldn't "easily" choose one over the other. All personal preference.

I also believe that all my backyard runs were pretty much made facing Curtly Ambrose. Scarier than the boogeyman.

 

[aussie]

I'd say its impossible too seperate Ambrose, McGrath, Donald, Akram at their respective peaks. Stats wont tell the entire truth, they all where as good as each other.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I'd say its impossible too seperate Ambrose, McGrath, Donald, Akram at their respective peaks. Stats wont tell the entire truth, they all where as good as each other.

It's a fair argument.

For me, personally, I'm a huge stickler for the idea of bowling in partnerships. McGrath and Ambrose were pretty much the best exponents of it in my time watching the game, managing to probe and threaten whilst still building pressure. That's why, personally, I have them a slight step above the other two.

Make no mistake, Akram and Donald were certainly capable of it, but in my opinion weren't as good at it as the two above.

 

[zaremba]

Stephen, I fully agree with your overall point that McGrath's record is breathtaking for the reasons you've given.

But I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here? -

His bowling average was marginally better in the second innings than the first.

 

[Notorious1]

Wasim Akram has to be the most complete bowlers out of all of them, he was equally good with the new and old ball, on all pitches in all conditions.

 

[aussie]

It's a fair argument.

For me, personally, I'm a huge stickler for the idea of bowling in partnerships. McGrath and Ambrose were pretty much the best exponents of it in my time watching the game, managing to probe and threaten whilst still building pressure. That's why, personally, I have them a slight step above the other two.

Make no mistake, Akram and Donald were certainly capable of it, but in my opinion weren't as good at it as the two above.

Yea thats true. Pigeon & Ambi would wore batsmen down technically & mentally. Donald & Akram didn't have that metromonical accuracy, they would blast you out a special delivery & high pace. But thats too small a detail to split them IMO.

Fact is is you give any of them @ their peaks the oppurtunity to bowl on a headingley greentop or Perth at its fastest, they would cause equal damage to a batting side.

 

[subshakerz]

Wasim Akram has to be the most complete bowlers out of all of them, he was equally good with the new and old ball, on all pitches in all conditions.

I agree. Overall career, I might tend towards McGrath or Ambrose, but in the 90s Akram was tops, and I'm sure most batsmen of the 90s would concur. Neither McGrath nor Ambrose really achieved anything in the subcontinent (McGrath success in India came in 2001 and 2005) whereas Akram for the majority of the decade was pure magic regardless of surface.

 

[Sir Alex]

Wasim Akram has to be the most complete bowlers out of all of them, he was equally good with the new and old ball, on all pitches in all conditions.

He was assisted hugely by incompetent umpires in Pakistan which has significanly skewed his numbers there. However he inded was a great swing bowler.

 

[subshakerz]

It's a fair argument.

For me, personally, I'm a huge stickler for the idea of bowling in partnerships. McGrath and Ambrose were pretty much the best exponents of it in my time watching the game, managing to probe and threaten whilst still building pressure. That's why, personally, I have them a slight step above the other two.

Make no mistake, Akram and Donald were certainly capable of it, but in my opinion weren't as good at it as the two above.

Akram in the 90s was pretty tight, from my memory, and hardly ever gave something away or let the batsmen dominate him. In fact his economy rate is nearly the same as McGrath's. He may not have been as much of a metronome as McGrath and Ambrose in this time, but by the same token he was more likely to produce a jaffa to dismiss a batsman out of nowhere even when they were set.

 

[subshakerz]

He was assisted hugely by incompetent umpires in Pakistan which has significanly skewed his numbers there. However he inded was a great swing bowler.

Minus that by the ridiculous number of dropped catches off his bowling by the worst standards of fielding in the game.

 

[Sir Alex]

Minus that by the ridiculous number of dropped catches off his bowling by the worst standards of fielding in the game.

I can not agree on that. Akram used to get more number of dismissals from lbw/bowled and slip catches than outfield catches. In players like Inzamam, Pakistan had good slip fielders.

 

[stephen]

Stephen, I fully agree with your overall point that McGrath's record is breathtaking for the reasons you've given.

But I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here? -

I haven't researched it more fully but I would expect fast bowlers to take more wickets in the first innings and therefore have a lower average there. Either way it was kinda stretching it a little.

Like I have said, Ambrose stood out as the best quick of the 90s and McGrath the best quick of the 00s. Overall McGrath's achievements on the flat tracks of the 00s place him in my all time XI, to reprise his role bowling alongside Warne.

 

[Uppercut]

Now try wickets per test and see what you get.

1. Muralitharan
2. Grimmett
3. O'Reilly
4. Steyn
5. Lillee
6. Hadlee
7. Warne
8. MacGill
9. Kumble
10. Marshall

Take away Stein for incomplete career and you have a very impressive list. Most contenders for the top spot are here. It is not a perfect criteria but I am afraid it is difficult to find anyone single which is. I am disappointed not to see Lindwall in that list for example. Someone else might be disappointed to see Imran missing but this is a statistical exercise after all.

What do you make of Dale Steyn as a bowler? I'm not sure whether he benefits in the popular mind from playing in an era with little competition as far as quality fast bowling goes or whether he should be credited for achieving such great success when barely anyone else is managing any at all.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Steyn, to me, is like Jason Gillespie in his prime, plus late outswing. Gillespie when he was bowling at his best, and quick, was prepared to be driven, and relied on slight movement off the seam and sometimes in the air.

Steyn is one of the few bowlers about who doesn't mind being taken through covers. Chuck in the ability to swing the ball - late! - and an understanding of what gets him wickets, and I think that if he can maintain it over another three to four years, then he'll be in a bracket of the Walsh / Waqar types, at least.

 

[honestbharani]

Steyn, to me, is like Jason Gillespie in his prime, plus late outswing. Gillespie when he was bowling at his best, and quick, was prepared to be driven, and relied on slight movement off the seam and sometimes in the air.

Steyn is one of the few bowlers about who doesn't mind being taken through covers. Chuck in the ability to swing the ball - late! - and an understanding of what gets him wickets, and I think that if he can maintain it over another three to four years, then he'll be in a bracket of the Walsh / Waqar types, at least.

Speaking of Gillespie, that ball he bowled to Lara in the second innings at Trinidad n the 99 test has to be the best ball I have seen.. Forget the spinning ones of Warne and Murali, THIS was one no left hander could have ever played.. The pace, the movement, the length, the line... Was impossible for any left hander AFAIC... You poke at it, the late movement would get the edge, you leave it, it is hitting the top of off stump, plonk your foot down, you are leg before as it pitched in line.. Heck, even if you get beaten, it will hit top of off stump.. Was amazing..

 

[aussie]

Speaking of Gillespie, that ball he bowled to Lara in the second innings at Trinidad n the 99 test has to be the best ball I have seen.. Forget the spinning ones of Warne and Murali, THIS was one no left hander could have ever played.. The pace, the movement, the length, the line... Was impossible for any left hander AFAIC... You poke at it, the late movement would get the edge, you leave it, it is hitting the top of off stump, plonk your foot down, you are leg before as it pitched in line.. Heck, even if you get beaten, it will hit top of off stump.. Was amazing..

Indeed sir, i remember it all too well.

 

[bagapath]

Indeed sir, i remember it all too well.

any video link, guys?