The best batsman and bowler of the 1990s

[bagapath]

...right, because they're gods.

ikki. you dont have a counter argument. so you resort to laughing. let me repeat once again. no leg spinner has blown india away in the 25 years of my cricket watching experience. either disprove me or accept it.

 

[Ikki]

if you claim the aussie attack was not great and it succeeded only because the entire indian batting line up sucked, what do you say about a guy who scores two centuries ignoring all the nonsense happening around him? BTW, shastri scored a double in sydnbey and azhar scored a run a ball hundred as well. it was a good indian batting line up that was blown away by a superb aussie attack. the point is, the pace attack did exceptionally well in that series. you cant hide that fact.

There were only 2 decent bowlers in that line up. Warne, nope. Whitney, nope. Reid, only played 2 matches and got injured IIRC - like most of his career. So it was McDermott who was really not that superlative and Hughes who was towards the end of his career as well. You seriously want to compare this attack to McGrath, Gillespie, Kasper, Warne, etc?

I didn't say the Indian batting attack couldn't score runs (be it centuries or more), they just weren't that good. In fact, they were pretty poor away. Would you dispute this?

Let me make it clear, I don't think that Aussie attack was poor and it was only good because the Indian batsmen were even poorer. I have said from the start that the attack was good (meaning pretty decent really) but it certainly wasn't one you'd compare with the best, which is what I think MrIncredible's point was. I don't understand how any of this is controversial at all.

ikki. you dont have a counter argument. so you resort to laughing. let me repeat once again. no leg spinner has blown india away in the 25 years of my cricket watching experience. either disprove me or accept it.

There hasn't been a legspinner as good as Warne for almost 3 times that length in time. So who are you comparing him with? In fact, Benaud who wasn't half the spinner Warne was succeeded there. Whether you think that is not a counter argument or whatever is not something I care a great deal about. Any time you utter anything like that statement I will laugh, because to me your black and white take on it is laughable. Take it how you wish.

 

[bagapath]

TYour black and white take on it is simply laughable, whether you think that is not a counter argument or whatever is not something I care a great deal about. Any time you utter anything like that statement I will laugh, because to me it is laughable. Take it how you wish.

no leg spinner has succeeded against india in the last 25 years. please laugh now....

 

[Ikki]

no leg spinner has succeeded against india in the last 25 years. please laugh now....

Name me a leg spinner as good as Warne in the last 25 years. Go...

 

[bagapath]

Name me a leg spinner as good as Warne in the last 25 years. Go...

why 25? in 50 years there hasnt been one like him. but how does that go against my argument?

the point is, warne succeeded against everyone in the world, except india. qadir, mushtaq, kaneria and mcgill have bowled out so many teams on their own. (so has kumble but he is indian). and none of them succeeded against india, even once!!!!!!! india has been humbled by tauseef ahmed, iqbal qasim, muralitharan, saqlain mushtaq and even michael clarke. which proves as a spinner you can be good (saqlain/qasim) or great (murali) or average (tauseef) or part time (clarke) but your day against india will come for sure as long as you are not a leg spinner. india was never ever troubled by any leg spinner since the time i started watching cricket. how are you going to prove me wrong?

and please laugh at my claim, i insist

 

[Ikki]

why 25? in 50 years there hasnt been one like him. but how does that go against my argument?

the point is, warne succeeded against everyone in the world, except india. qadir, mushtaq, kaneria and mcgill have bowled out so many teams on their own. (so has kumble but he is indian). and none of them succeeded against india, even once!!!!!!! india has been humbled by tauseef ahmed, iqbal qasim, muralitharan, saqlain mushtaq and even michael clarke. which proves as a spinner you can be good (saqlain/qasim) or great (murali) or average (tauseef) or part time (clarke) but your day against india will come for sure as long as you are not a leg spinner. india was never ever troubled by any leg spinner since the time i started watching cricket. how are you going to prove me wrong?

and please laugh at my claim, i insist

I am laughing, believe me. How does it not go against your argument? Warne is a head, shoulders and waist above any other leg-spinner since O'Reilly and Grimmett. Which means India's feats against other spinners - who are mediocre in comparison to Warne - irrelevant. It means you have no standard to compare with. Warne is a whole different standard.

Neither Kanieria, MacGill, Qadir or any other bowler you wish to name 25 years before Warne or since are even in the same hemisphere. Thanks for playing. You can go back to convincing everyone that the 92 Aussie attack were world beaters.

 

[bagapath]

I am laughing, believe me. How does it not go against your argument? Warne is a head, shoulders and waist above any other leg-spinner since O'Reilly and Grimmett. Which means India's feats against other spinners - who are mediocre in comparison to Warne - irrelevant. It means you have no standard to compare with. Warne is a whole different standard.

but warne failed against india as well.... if you show me any leg spinner doing well against india then my claim that indians slaughter leg spinners at will can come under fire. if not you will have accept my claim that no leggie has succeeded agianst india. please laugh one more time and prove me wrong.

i know you are tap dancing here. but you cant dodge the bullets for long. the nervous laughter is already a giveaway. all i said was no leggie has succeeded against india in 25 years. if u cannot counter argue and disprove that claim, you will have to come around and agree with me. and please laugh once again.....

 

[Ikki]

but warne failed against india as well.... if you show me any leg spinner doing well against india then my claim that indians slaughter leg spinners at will can come under fire. if not you will have accept my claim that no leggie has succeeded agianst india. please laugh one more time and prove me wrong.

Yes, the whole contention is the fact that Warne never faced them at his best/or fit. Did he? So again, what is your point? You wish to think Warne's matches, especially in 98-01, against India were representative of his quality. I don't. Which is not to say I think he would have gone there and dominated, but certainly would not have been handled that way. You say he would have...based on Qadir, Kanieira and every other leg-spinner in between. So yes, your argument is laughable to me. This seems to bother you, and I apologise, but it is what it is. I can't buy these magic beans, I'm afraid. Let us move on to the next fairy tale.

 

[bagapath]

Let us move on to the next fairy tale.

i am ready. but i feel bad you are not laughing anymore. well, that does happen when one cant fake it beyond a point. so let me not torture you any more. let me assume i am an indian batter and you are a leggie and there wont be any place for you to hide

back to topic....

before deciding on the best batsman of the 90s, it is worth is looking at sachin's failures against SA at home. and his overall below par performances against pak and against SA in SA. would like to hear from everyone if this is a reflection of any chink in his game or it is due to specific bowlers - pollock, donald, akhthar etc - who manged get him more frequently than many other equally good bowlers who could not. every great has a waterloo. NZ for sobers; India for Warne and Ponting. Pakistan for Lillee. Australia for Murali. May be SA at home would remain to be Sachin's. But while everyone else has failed at a particular country I wonder why Tendulkar failed regularly in his backyard despite scoring 3 hundreds in SA.

 

[Ikki]

No, I'm still laughing, don't worry .

As for the best batsman; I named both Tendulkar and Waugh. Tendulkar for being a run machine and Waugh for his consistency, but especially so against the best pace attacks of the time. For me, it's between those two.

 

[bagapath]

As for the best batsman; I named both Tendulkar and Waugh. Tendulkar for being a run machine and Waugh for his consistency, but especially so against the best pace attacks of the time. For me, it's between those two.

i am more inclined towards lara than these two. also inzamam and graham gooch deserve a mention

 

[Avada Kedavra]

We can all make petty excuses all we want. Tendulkar has been at the recieving end of many a harsh call against the Australians. And the Tendulkar in 04-05 was way below his best, he was playing with an injury too. If you are making excuses for Warne, then u should accept these for Tendulkar. As for Tendulkar not being as good as Lara against top quality pace, do you know that :

Tendulkar has hit 100s against both the Wasim-Waqar combo and the Donald-Pollock combo ? Lara couldn't manage either.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

And the best batsman in the 1990s was undoubtedly Tendulkar. Best spinner would be Warne and best fast bowler would be Ambrose.

 

[Ikki]

i am more inclined towards lara than these two. also inzamam and graham gooch deserve a mention

Why Lara? He had a pretty bad spell towards the end of the 90s, and wasn't as consistent as these two. He was also very ordinary away from home.

 

[Sir Alex]

And the best batsman in the 1990s was undoubtedly Tendulkar. Best spinner would be Warne and best fast bowler would be Ambrose.

Hi Sir Alex..

Joking, Your words echo mine!

 

[subshakerz]

Tendulkar has hit 100s against both the Wasim-Waqar combo and the Donald-Pollock combo ? Lara couldn't manage either.

That's true, Lara hasnt scored tons against them. But their overall record against these attacks is almost the same, so I wouldnt give Tendulkar an advantage here.

 

[bagapath]

Tendulkar has hit 100s against both the Wasim-Waqar combo and the Donald-Pollock combo ? Lara couldn't manage either.

didn't know this till today. thx dude.

 

[MSMDL67]

Sachin Tendulkar / Brian Lara (batsmen) and Wasim Akram (bowler ).

 

[Richard]

Putting aside the rest of your post - if Heals is reading these pages then I reckon he'll consider even being mentioned in that list to be the biggest compliment he's ever received.

For sure he was miles behind them all but he was an important part of Australia's batting order for a fair while (1993-1998/99) and thus I mentioned him.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

What you have to understand is that Tendulkar and Lara are both great batsmen, probably in the top 5 of all time. But Tendulkar has been significantly better against the greatest fast bowlers. He pummeled a Donald at his best in the 90s and scored 2 100s against him. This forced Donald to come out and say that Tendulkar is the best batsmen he ever bowled to. Lara despite facing a Donald well past his peak in the 00s couldn't score a single 100 against him. Lara's record against Pakistan improved very significantly after the retirements of the 2 Ws. Is it a coincidence that Lara's first 100 against Pakistan came after they retired ? Incidentally Wasim Akram also rates Tendulkar ahead of Lara.

This is not to mention that Lara didn't face 2 other great fast bowlers - Walsh and Ambrose. Obviously he can't face his own team mates, but as Tendulkar has faced 2 all time greats that Lara didn't (and done well), and still has a better overall record, I would give Tendulkar the edge there. And unless I am much mistaken he also has a 90 against Richard Hadlee. If u want to go purely on averages, a 16 year old Tendulkar performed better against Imran Khan than an older Lara.

All this and someone comes up and says Tendulkar can't play pace LOL

When you compare 2 greats as good as Lara and Tendulkar, the views of contempraries count for a lot (much more than your view and my view definitely). Bradman, Ponting, Hadlee, Wasim Akram, Donald, Sobers, Warne, Steve Waugh, Mark Waugh (and many more) rate Tendulkar ahead of Lara. Some go as far as to say that he is the best after Bradman. A few years back Wisden made a list of the greatest bats of all time, and Tendulkar came second in that after Bradman.