The Australian top order doom and gloom thread

[flibbertyjibber]

As an outsider I can see why keeping Clarke at 5 is a good option, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Hussey though can move to 4 and should be fine, as the stats show he averages only 5 more at 5 or 6 than at 3 or 4 which is nothing really.

The real problem is what to do with Watson? Does he bat at 6 and get enough overs under his belt to be called an all rounder/good 5th bowler or is he just a batsman/part time trundler now? Openers, well I am not convinced by either Cowan or Warner but both got centuries in the last series so will probably remain. I'd pick Khawaja and stick with him as I think he is the best of the younger players not in the side but the selectors will probably go for Hughes again then bomb him if he doesn't come good in 3 matches.

I'd reluctantly go for....

Warner
Cowan
Khawaja
Hussey
Clarke
Watson


I'll leave the backstop debate to you lot as Wade clearly isn't a keeper.

 

[Spark]

Hussey should bat below Clarke IMO, whatever we do. His technique is perfect for a lower-middle-order marshal. Also avoids us having to reshuffle again in 2 years time or whenever he retires.

 

[BackFootPunch]

How much leeway do the selectors now give Hussey should his form dip again? Is he a genuine chance of playing through until around the next World Cup?

It wasn't too long ago that people were saying he was nearly done. With Ponting gone, surely Huss will be cut some slack. Though the way he's batting atm he's obviously nowhere near getting the boot.

 

[watson]

Batting

Warner and Cowan are beginning to work as an opening pair, Clarke and Hussey have recently scored a ton of runs at 5 and 6, and I think that Watson is more suited to 3 rather than 4 because of his credentials as an opener. So we leave those 5 batsman where they are. Therefore, we find the most inform No.4 batsman in the country and give him a go against the Sri Lankans. Then cross our fingers.

Keeping

I have no major problem with Wade as keeper even though he not pristine behind the stumps. I think that he has the temperment to succeed with both gloves and bat, so I vote we give him a fair go for the next 12 months.

Bowling

Lyon has been a revelation IMO and should go on to become one of Australia's most successful off-spinners. I think that Mitchell Johnson showed enough resolve in Perth to justify a string of Test matches. Siddle-Pattinson-Johnson has the makings of reasonable pace attack if they can all stay fit and maintain their fitness. Stark is the obvious back-up.

 

[uvelocity]

So we play these young blokes out of position, and our experienced blokes out of position just because it looks bad to the public?

The only reason Ponting started his career down the order only because we had established, performing cricketers at 3/4/5 (Boon, Waugh & Waugh). At the moment we don't have performing cricketers at 3&4 so we are looking to introduce a batsman who bats in the top of the order to debut in the top order. Why would you advocate batting everyone out of position just for the sake of it?

I don't see 6 as out of position for an opener itbt. Hopefully going to face the new ball there too. No more out of position than bringing them in at 3 or 4 anyway. I'd advocate either Clarke or Hussey out of position, but not really so much so for them either. Huss was happy to come into the team as an opener originally, a place he batted for the sandchokers if you remember. Clarke is just good enough, and it sends the right message to the rest of the team.

 

[benchmark00]

How about we just play players where they perform the best for the team? Crazy idea, but it just might work.

 

[stephen]

Batting

Warner and Cowan are beginning to work as an opening pair, Clarke and Hussey have recently scored a ton of runs at 5 and 6, and I think that Watson is more suited to 3 rather than 4 because of his credentials as an opener. So we leave those 5 batsman where they are. Therefore, we find the most inform No.4 batsman in the country and give him a go against the Sri Lankans. Then cross our fingers.

Keeping

I have no major problem with Wade as keeper even though he not pristine behind the stumps. I think that he has the temperment to succeed with both gloves and bat, so I vote we give him a fair go for the next 12 months.

Bowling

Lyon has been a revelation IMO and should go on to become one of Australia's most successful off-spinners. I think that Mitchell Johnson showed enough resolve in Perth to justify a string of Test matches. Siddle-Pattinson-Johnson has the makings of reasonable pace attack if they can all stay fit and maintain their fitness. Stark is the obvious back-up.

They have already indicated that Watto will be moving down to 4.

Which means we need to do something about the 1-2-3 spots. If we bring in Hughes I would be happy enough seeing him come in to open and having Cowan drop down to #3. Ideally, in the long term, I think we will be looking at a Hughes/Warner opening partnership anyway, so this would help that. If Khawaja was brought in, I'd suggest he move to #3 and leave the rest of the lineup as it is.

If we were to drop Wade, the only player I would like us to drop him for is Hartley - the best pure keeper in the country. Otherwise he's our best batsman/keeper.

The fast bowling pecking order should be (spinners should be Lyon then Hauritz):

Pattinson (injured)
Harris (injured)
Hilfenhaus (injured)
Siddle
Cummins (injured)
Starc
Johnson
Bollinger
Cutting/Bird/Hazelwood (injured)/Hastings (injured)
Whoever else

That makes our attack for the next test Siddle, Starc and Johnson, unless Hilf can make his return. Hilfenhaus has been our most consistently good bowler now for a good 18 months and should be ahead of everyone but Harris and Pattinson in the pecking order IMO.

 

[stephen]

One really big concern for me at the moment is Watson. He's not batting well enough to hold his place as a batsman and he's not bowling enough overs to hold a place as a bowler. I'm not sure what we can do about that, but it's frustrating nonetheless.

 

[benchmark00]

Firstly - lol @ you still thinking Hartley is the best keeper/bat in the country (outside of Wade I guess your opinion is).

Secondly, you're basing Watson's form not being good enough over a sample size of one match? Wait until we see him over the course of a series before commenting on whether he's batting or bowling well enough.

 

[Spark]

I'm guessing he's going over the course of the last 18 months.

 

[benchmark00]

I'm guessing he's going over the course of the last 18 months.

My point is that he hasn't had an uninterrupted go of it for ages. Let him get some games in succession to see how he goes.

 

[AlanJLegend]

I'm not sure if moving Watson to 4 is a good idea or not. If he can cash in against a softer ball and get big hundreds then that is fantastic. But the argument is that if he is going to consistently get 50s he might as well open and see off the new ball.

I just hope that whoever gets picked to replace Ponting (looking like Hughes atm) they get a long stay and not dropped after not making a 50+ score against SL.

 

[Top_Cat]

Hughes/Warner opening partnership.

*shudder*

 

[social]

Unless Watson is fit to bowl, he does not deserve to be in the team

Even then. he should not be allowed to pick and choose where he bats as the reality is that an average of 24 doesnt qualify him to bat above Wade

I am so sick of people making excuses for him like "must bat top 3 as cant play spin"

How about "consistent failures arent good enough so **** off and learn how to score 100s again"

 

[stephen]

Firstly - lol @ you still thinking Hartley is the best keeper/bat in the country (outside of Wade I guess your opinion is).

Secondly, you're basing Watson's form not being good enough over a sample size of one match? Wait until we see him over the course of a series before commenting on whether he's batting or bowling well enough.

Wade is the guy most deserving of the keeper role at the moment. He's the best batsman/keeper in the country. My point was that if you are going to drop the best batsman/keeper because his keeping is losing you tests, you should be picking the best keeper/batsman instead.

Nev and Haddin are both better batsmen than Hartley. Paine... well Paine isn't even a better bat than Hartley and none of the other keepers stand out at the moment at all.

Which leads me back to my point that if you're going to drop Wade (which I don't advocate), it should only be for Hartley.

Edit: Secondly, over the last 9 tests that he's played in (since August 2011 - the Sri Lanka series), Watson has averaged 24 with the bat and 23 with the ball (taking under 2wpm). His bowling output has been very good. His batting output has been dire.

 

[watson]

Hughes/Warner opening partnership.

*shudder*

Agreed.

Phil Hughes does not have the technical skill to survive Test match cricket. End of story.

 

[stephen]

Agreed.

Phil Hughes does not have the technical skill to survive Test match cricket. End of story.

DWTA.

The guy has just turned 24. Hussey and Hayden were both 30 before they proved to be world beaters. He is a huge talent with a couple of technical flaws in his game that need a bit of ironing out.

He already has over 1000 test match runs. He might not be the next Ponting, but he is one of the best batsmen in the country and has time on his side to improve his game.

Actually, looking at his stats now, it's hard to see why he doesn't get a run in the ODI side. He's averaging 48 in List A and over 50 in T20 cricket.

 

[Johnners]

lovin' how my fanboyism for C.Ferg suddenly turned into people actually talking about him as an option.

WAG

 

[uvelocity]

How about we just play players where they perform the best for the team? Crazy idea, but it just might work.

matey it's not an idea without its share of merit either, but you're failing to acknowledge two things. One, Hussey doesn't really have a position, in his career he's batted everywhere. Two, whomever comes in out of Hughes/Khawaja/Quiney will be batting out of position themselves. The only possible exception being d00lan.

Question time:
1. What is easier for Michael Clarke; coming in at 1/35 or 3/60? - it doesn't ****ing matter
2. What is easier for the new boy, batting 3 or batting 6?

Actually, looking at his stats now, it's hard to see why he doesn't get a run in the ODI side. He's averaging 48 in List A and over 50 in T20 cricket.

long overdue stevie boy. massive **** up by successive panels.

 

[watson]

DWTA.

The guy has just turned 24. Hussey and Hayden were both 30 before they proved to be world beaters. He is a huge talent with a couple of technical flaws in his game that need a bit of ironing out.

He already has over 1000 test match runs. He might not be the next Ponting, but he is one of the best batsmen in the country and has time on his side to improve his game.

Actually, looking at his stats now, it's hard to see why he doesn't get a run in the ODI side. He's averaging 48 in List A and over 50 in T20 cricket.

'He already has over 1000 test match runs.' - That's the whole point. He's been around long enough to score a 1000 runs and still can't get his act together.

I really hope I'm wrong, but if Hughes plays in the next Ashes series then James Anderson will bowl short at his body, or inswinging balls on a good length, and make mince-meat of him all over again.