The ATG World XI's game

[watson]

Stewart shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Knott or Ames. If you want a far superior wicketkeeper with outstanding batting, choose Ames, but if you want arguably the finest wicketkeeper ever with slightly less talent with the bat, it's Knott. Hoping that doesn't sound rude, it's not intended to be! Also, NUFAN, want me to continue now?

An interesting article on the problem of batting AND keeping.

...Russell's England career embodies the wicketkeeping conundrum. In his first full series, he scored a hundred against the 1989 Australians and, because he was also the best keeper around, seemed certain to be a fixture for the next decade. Yet 18 months later he was dropped: England needed to claw back a losing series at Adelaide in 1990-91, so an extra bowler was needed. Stewart's superior batting became the panacea whenever England had to retrieve a losing position.

The captain Graham Gooch still defends the decision. "For a long time England have been in the position where four front-line bowlers aren't enough on good wickets. The Australians and the West Indians of the 1980s could get away with just four, because at least two of them would be worldclass performers. I had to get the extra bowler in because we were behind in the series and needed more options."

Surprisingly, one man less than happy at the decision was the England coach at the time, Stewart's father, Micky. "I didn't like it early on because Alec and Mike Atherton were a big plus as an opening partnership of contrasting styles, with fine temperaments. Also I thought that Jack Russell would end up getting consistent runs at seven. But the one-off became a pattern over the next few years and we lost that major attribute of a settled opening pair while playing a keeper who wasn't as good as Jack at the time."

He thinks his son improved, though. "I honestly believe that Alec became a better keeper standing back than Jack Russell. Jack was of course a natural and Alec had to work at the job, but there were times when Jack would spill a straightforward catch for some unaccountable reason when standing back. Alec, once he gave as much time to his preparation with the gloves as his batting, was very consistent."


Wisden - Stumpers or stoppers?

 

[fredfertang]

Agree with watson about the pace bowlers so Akhtar, Thomson and Richardson for me

I'm going to keep plugging away with Johnny Wardle for the spinner's spot - he was a top class orthodox slow left arm bowler for years and years and showed in South Africa in 56/57 that he was also without question the best chinaman bowler to have played international cricket, so he is very much a case of two for the price of one - I suspect that people wrongly, but understandably, hold his Yorkshireness against him

 

[Dan]

Edited my spinner's pick from Trumble to Wardle. Completely forgot about him..

 

[Camo999]

Bond
Spofforth
B Johnston
Gupte

 

[Jager]

An interesting article on the problem of batting AND keeping.

"Don't waste the wicketkeeping talent we've got in this country by giving the gloves to batters. We'll be paying the penalty 20 years down the line. Go for the stumper ahead of the stopper every time."
Jack Russell

Great quote, echoes my thoughts on ATG keepers.

 

[Blakus]

Frederick Spofforth
Shane Bond
Monty Noble
Hugh Trumble

 

[Jarquis]

Cowie
Bond
Noble
Trumble

 

[G.I.Joe]

Akhtar, Thomson, Bond, Chandrasekhar

 

[Flametree]

My computer has been in the shop getting fixed so this is the first I've seen of this thread.

My initial thought on looking at the players available for selection is how the hell is Wardle still on the market? I think I'm right in saying he has the second lowest average of any spinner who bowled post World War one (behind Ironmonger) with say 10 tests as a qualifier. As has been mentioned he could even bowl in two styles. Handy bat too.

Bill Johnston is the standout in the quick bowlers list... in Miller and Lindwall's shadow no doubt, but 160 wickets at 23 is pretty decent.

So Wardle, Thomson, Cowie, Johnston.

 

[Noble One]

My computer has been in the shop getting fixed so this is the first I've seen of this thread.

My initial thought on looking at the players available for selection is how the hell is Wardle still on the market? I think I'm right in saying he has the second lowest average of any spinner who bowled post World War one (behind Ironmonger) with say 10 tests as a qualifier. As has been mentioned he could even bowl in two styles. Handy bat too.

Bill Johnston is the standout in the quick bowlers list... in Miller and Lindwall's shadow no doubt, but 160 wickets at 23 is pretty decent.

So Wardle, Thomson, Cowie, Johnston.

Wardle was of the highest quality no doubt. However he was largely ignored for much of his career by another spinner not yet selected.

Lock the more deserving spinner if you prefer impact on the game.

 

[Howe_zat]

Bond, Richardson, Shoaib and Wardle

 

[Noble One]

Shane Bond
Jason Gillespie
Fred Spofforth
Tom Richardson

 

[Flametree]

Wardle was of the highest quality no doubt. However he was largely ignored for much of his career by another spinner not yet selected.

Lock the more deserving spinner if you prefer impact on the game.

Always a small shadow over him because he got away with throwing his quicker ones for a disturbingly long time. I know he cleared it up after he saw video of himself "bowling".

And his figures are hugely improved thanks to the woeful kiwi tourists of 1958 who just didn't have a clue on wet wickets and had the misfortune to hit a very wet summer. Lock took 34 wickets at 7.5, and if you look at his average against nations other than NZ, it's just over 30.

(Wardle's bunnies were Pakistan - but he still averaged under 24 against all other countries combined.)

 

[Jager]

I had to choose between Spofforth, Akhtar and Wardle. I went with Akhtar to form a truly terrifying pace attack that certainly has an X-Factor about it.

EDIT: Fairer if I go for Wardle.

Bond: 10
McDermott: 1
Spofforth: 4
Prasanna: 2
Thomson: 6
Gillespie: 2
Chandresekhar: 2
Streak: 1
Richardson: 5
Wardle: 4
Akhtar: 4
Broad: 1
Bedi: 1
Johnston: 2
Gupte: 1
Noble: 2
Trumble: 2
Cowie: 2

 

[Jager]

1. Select your preferred openers
2. Select your ideal batsmen for positions 3, 4 and 5

Suggested openers
Dennis Amiss, Saeed Anwar, Michael Atherton, Charles Bannerman, Bill Brown, Alastair Cook, Stewie Dempster, John Edrich, Roy Fredericks, Gautam Gambhir, Herschelle Gibbs, Conrad Hunte, Sanath Jayasuriya, Gary Kirsten, Justin Langer, Archie McLaren, Mark Richardson, Michael Slater, Navjot Sidhu, Michael Slater, Alec Stewart, Andrew Strauss, Herbie Taylor, Mark Taylor, Marcus Trescothick, Glenn Turner, Michael Vaughan, Cyril Washbrook

Suggested middle order batsman
Zaheer Abbas, Mohinder Amarnath, Hashim Amla, Warwick Armstrong, Mohammad Azharuddin, Ian Bell, Colin Bland, David Boon, Michael Clarke, Colin Cowdrey, Daryl Cullinan, Aravinda de Silva, Kumar Duleepsinhji, Sourav Ganguly, Tom Graveney, Lindsay Hassett, Vijay Hazare, Michael Hussey, Stanley Jackson, Douglas Jardine, Alvin Kallicharan, Younus Khan, Maurice Leyland, Saleem Malik, Damien Martyn, Mushtaq Mohammad, Seymour Nourse, Norman O'Neill, Richie Richardson, Lawrence Rowe, Thilan Samaraweera, Arthur Shrewsbury, Robin Smith, Herbie Taylor, Graeme Thorpe, Dilip Vengsarkar, Gundappa Viswanath, Mark Waugh, Frank Woolley, Mohammad Yousuf

World L XI
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. J Wardle
9. S Bond
10. J Thomson
11. T Richardson

 

[vic_orthdox]

Alec Stewart still available as an opener?

Saeed Anwar
Gary Kirsten

Richie Richardson
Graeme Thorpe
Damien Martyn

 

[NUFAN]

Interesting choice. 4 quicks who aren't very good batters.


1) Conrad Hunte and Saeed Anwar - Perfect right hand left hand combo.
2) Lindsay Hassett, Mark Waugh and Mohammad Yousuf.


Waugh gets a birthday vote from me.

 

[Jager]

Stewart has been taken as a number six batsman last round (World K XI). Probably not ideal if you have been reading the England wicketkeeper thread, but at least there's some decent batting in that side.

 

[Jager]

Interesting choice. 4 quicks who aren't very good batters.

There's definitely some risk to this side (and risk to the lives of the opposition), but it was a calculated one. I figured that having a tyrannical pace attack with a little less batting would be worth it, plus Bond has a first class century so he wasn't too sloppy with the bat.

 

[NUFAN]

There's definitely some risk to this side (and risk to the lives of the opposition), but it was a calculated one. I figured that having a tyrannical pace attack with a little less batting would be worth it, plus Bond has a first class century so he wasn't too sloppy with the bat.

Chris Martin has a first class 25. Just sayin'.