The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Red]

No more than usual. It's a burden, but one I carry well.

 

[kyear2]

Everyone, well the non-NZ posters anyway, seem to be saying that Hadlee would only be included for his batting. He had a poor start to his career, hence his bowling average is 22 and not 20/21. But I would love to have seen what Lillee, Marshall, etc. would have done at age 38/39.

Hadlee averaged 19 throughout the 1980s. If his batting was like Chris Martin's, I would still seriously consider him for my all-time XI.

I have never read or heard about anyone who called Hadlee the best of his era, far less the greatest ever. From having watched Hadlee and reading about him I rate him behind Marshall, Mcgrath, Ambrose, Lillee and Trueman and on par with Holding, Imran, Garner ect. So with Imran at 8 and Marshall and Warne more than good enough to bat at 9 and 10, I see no need to choose who I consider a weaker bowler to McGrath just to boost an already strong tail. Plus if you are banking on your #11 in this lineup to save your hide, then you are already sunk. Plus as many a batsman has proven, you don't have to be one of the "bowling all rounders" to make a valid contribution in the tail or help to save or win a match.

 

[kyear2]

No one said anything about 'second rate bowlers' as both Imran and Hadlee are worthy of their selection in a First ATG XI.

It's just that if you look at the ATG XI voting thread there are three players on a perfect 150/150 - Bradman, Marshall, and Hobbs. Imran scored 105 and Hadlee 87. This would imply that Marshall is in a fast-bowling league of his own in the mind of many cricket enthusiasts.

It's Bradman, Sobers and Marshall with Hobbs just behind with I believe 144. But yes the point is still and quite valid.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Hadlee makes my first ATG team purely as a bowler. His batting has got to do nothing for his inclusion. And yes I considered him above McGrath, Ambrose or Lillee for first team and there are number of reasons for this which I'll post later maybe. My last four would be-

8. Imran
9. Hadlee
10. Marshall
11. Warne

 

[The Battlers Prince]

Hadlee makes my first ATG team purely as a bowler. His batting has got to do nothing for his inclusion. And yes I considered him above McGrath, Ambrose or Lillee for first team and there are number of reasons for this which I'll post later maybe. My last four would be-

8. Imran
9. Hadlee
10. Marshall
11. Warne

in those 4 it makes sense, it just looks funny to see warne at 11

 

[Red]

I have never read or heard about anyone who called Hadlee the best of his era, far less the greatest ever. From having watched Hadlee and reading about him I rate him behind Marshall, Mcgrath, Ambrose, Lillee and Trueman and on par with Holding, Imran, Garner ect. So with Imran at 8 and Marshall and Warne more than good enough to bat at 9 and 10, I see no need to choose who I consider a weaker bowler to McGrath just to boost an already strong tail. Plus if you are banking on your #11 in this lineup to save your hide, then you are already sunk. Plus as many a batsman has proven, you don't have to be one of the "bowling all rounders" to make a valid contribution in the tail or help to save or win a match.

Plenty of people rate Hadlee very very highly. I consider him the equal (and better than some) of the WI's bowlers of his era.

 

[harsh.ag]

He does have at least one very smart suit, from Savile Row obviously, only the best for Burgey

I don't care if you can afford it, you have to earn your first Hermes. This is what my dick of a boss told me the first day of my job. Plus, having not liked the Ode I wrote a couple of pages back, I have to ruefully rethink my thoughts on Burgey's elitist status

 

[harsh.ag]

Here is an interesting all-rounder atxi for england:

W G Grace
Wilfred Rhodes

Wally Hammond
Frank Woolley
George Ulyett

Tony Greig
Ian Botham
Andrew Flintoff
George Hirst

Alan Knott (w)
Maurice Tate

12th man: Trevor Bailey

Nice team Hell could dance with the best of them.

 

[Red]

Australian all rounders XI

Shane Watson
Monty Noble
George Giffen
Warwick Armstrong
Keith Miller
Andrew Symonds
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Greg Matthews
Jack Gregory
Richie Benaud
Ray Lindwall

12th- Ken McKay

 

[CricketJock]

Hello everyone. Here's my team...it'll be very interesting for me to read through this giant thread and see who has picked who, and who I should have picked. All observations are welcome (-:

01 – Sunil Gavaskar
02 – Sachin Tendulkar
03 –Sir Viv Richards
04 – Brian Lara
05 – Ricky Ponting
06 – Adam Gilchrist
07 – Sir Ian Botham
08 – Sir Garfield Sobers
09 – Malcolm Marshall
10 – Shane Warne
11 – Curtly Ambrose


I love the notion of Ambrose and Marshall opening an attack. How horrific to have the direct power of the sawn of Marshall open at one end and then eight feet high deliveries from Ambrose next over. Horrible combo.

I worry that 3-8, although there is a colossus of runs in there, might be vulnerable to a blow out, through over aggression? Not that the opening pair are shrinking violets, but I do think that's an extremely brutal line up. Any suggestions on who might be introduced instead, and for whom? The top three only are non-negotiable to me (I love the "Thinking" opening pair followed by just brutal brutal Richards stroke-play. Not interested in the stats here so much as a horror show of a combination for the opposition, same as the opening bowling pair).

 

[CricketJock]

I should have said - i'm only interested in using cricketers i've seen loads of. I don't mind other people including other guys, definitely, i'm just saying, not me.

 

[the big bambino]

Australian all rounders XI

Shane Watson
Monty Noble
George Giffen
Warwick Armstrong
Keith Miller
Andrew Symonds
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Greg Matthews
Jack Gregory
Richie Benaud
Ray Lindwall

12th- Ken McKay

Replace the highlighted with the Governor General (batting ave 41 bowling ave 27), Charlie Kelleway (Batting 37 bowling 32) and Steve Waugh (nuff said).

Love the bowling with Lindwall, Gregory and Miller followed by Noble and Benaud. Giffen, McCartney, Armstrong and Kelleway not bad options either. Steve Waugh too.

 

[NUFAN]

Hello everyone. Here's my team...it'll be very interesting for me to read through this giant thread and see who has picked who, and who I should have picked. All observations are welcome (-:

01 – Sunil Gavaskar
02 – Sachin Tendulkar
03 –Sir Viv Richards
04 – Brian Lara
05 – Ricky Ponting
06 – Adam Gilchrist
07 – Sir Ian Botham
08 – Sir Garfield Sobers
09 – Malcolm Marshall
10 – Shane Warne
11 – Curtly Ambrose


I love the notion of Ambrose and Marshall opening an attack. How horrific to have the direct power of the sawn of Marshall open at one end and then eight feet high deliveries from Ambrose next over. Horrible combo.

I worry that 3-8, although there is a colossus of runs in there, might be vulnerable to a blow out, through over aggression? Not that the opening pair are shrinking violets, but I do think that's an extremely brutal line up. Any suggestions on who might be introduced instead, and for whom? The top three only are non-negotiable to me (I love the "Thinking" opening pair followed by just brutal brutal Richards stroke-play. Not interested in the stats here so much as a horror show of a combination for the opposition, same as the opening bowling pair).

Tendulkar opening is unusual but fair enough I suppose since you want to squeeze in as many middle order bats as possible. However, I strongly recommend you move Sobers up the order, definitely ahead of Gilchrist and Botham as he is in my opinion your best batsman. I would probably bat him at 5 ahead of Ponting, but think 5 or 6 is good for him. I love your opening bowling attack, its the pair I always end up picking together too. Welcome to the forums.

 

[Dan]

Australian all rounders XI

Shane Watson
Monty Noble
George Giffen
Warwick Armstrong
Keith Miller
Andrew Symonds
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Greg Matthews
Jack Gregory
Richie Benaud
Ray Lindwall

12th- Ken McKay

1. Shane Watson
2. Bob Simpson
3. Charlie Macartney
4. Keith Miller
5. Warwick Armstrong
6. Adam Gilchrist
7. Monty Noble
8. George Giffen/Jack Gregory
9. Richie Benaud
10. Alan Davidson
11. Ray Lindwall

 

[Red]

1. Shane Watson
2. Bob Simpson
3. Charlie Macartney
4. Keith Miller
5. Warwick Armstrong
6. Adam Gilchrist
7. Monty Noble
8. George Giffen/Jack Gregory
9. Richie Benaud
10. Alan Davidson
11. Ray Lindwall

Yeh, that's better. Simmo took over a wicket per game on average, so fair enough. Completely forgot Davidson on my first go.

 

[Red]

South African All Rounders XI

Bruce Mitchell
Trevor Goddard
Jaques Kallis
AB Devilliers
Aubrey Faulkner
Eddie Barlow
Lance Klusener
Mike Procter
Brian McMillan
Shaun Pollock
Vernon Philander

 

[Coronis]

Don't like that Watson guy being there though.

 

[the big bambino]

Ha true. Davo for Kelleway in mine.

Watson was the 1st guy I ****ed off. Ahead of Matthews.

 

[Dan]

Don't like that Watson guy being there though.

Nor do I, but the side needed an opener and I wanted Macartney to be godly at #3.

 

[Dan]

South African All Rounders XI

Bruce Mitchell
Trevor Goddard
Jaques Kallis
AB Devilliers
Aubrey Faulkner
Eddie Barlow
Lance Klusener
Mike Procter
Brian McMillan
Shaun Pollock
Vernon Philander

Rice in for Klusener and Barlow switching places with Goddard and that's my XI.