The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Burgey]

General warning for everyone in this thread that it's getting a bit overly heated. You can argue your case without telling people they seem stupid or that they're posting nonsense etc.

I'm not going to give out any infractions for what's passed as it was all borderline but try to be a bit less personal if you all want to keep avoiding them.

Never let it be said the moderators here have double standards, when it's actually triple or more. Extraordinary.

 

[sunilz]

Mark Waugh has no business being in the same sentence as the other three when it comes to ODI batting. But between those 3, I would still not call it with any certainty to anyone,yet, coz Sachin was just as ridiculous with his ODI run in his time as Kohli and the real AB have been in this generation.

Tendulkar is inferior to both Kohli and Devilliers imo. Only thing that counts against Kohli is WC knockout record.
Tendulkar in 2000 was merely accumulator of runs. He wasn't the free flowing batsman of 90s . This is my opinion. You may disagree

 

[sunilz]

Another controversial opinion from my side : If Richards played in modern era , he wouldn't be rated higher than Ponting in test. Richards averaged 44 in Asia and the spin bowling attacks he faced was nowhere near to what Ponting faced in IND and SL . IND at home during Ponting's time were much stronger as compared to Richard's time . Also let's not forget Ponting was successful against Muralitharan whom Richards never faced and there is no guarantee he would have been successful against Murali consider his 44 average in Asia.

Ponting was as good as Richards against fast bowling .

This is a controversial opinion from my side . Please don't lynch me online

 

[vcs]

Seriously though, probably the most underrated cricketer from the 90s was Anwar. Bloke was an absolute gun and had a great record against the top 8 sides and outside Asia too. In the 90s his stats are virtually identical to Tendulkar's, both inside and outside Asia.

??

Averaged 22 in Australia, 23 in New Zealand and 25 in South Africa.

 

[h_hurricane]

??

Averaged 22 in Australia, 23 in New Zealand and 25 in South Africa.

But they era adjust to 42, 43 and 45 respectively.

 

[Burgey]

You going on a trip with your wife and him going on a tour professionally are two different things though. And suit yourself, its your loss if you don't visit Goa.

Its funny how appealing suddenly India became when he was made coach though. Like I said, it does damage you professionally when you decide to intentionally sit out what are usually tough conditions for players from your team.

I don't think they were tough conditions on the field for players from Australia back then tbh. The Indian attack was pretty ordinary tbh and Chappell was an awesome player of spin. Likewise with England in 81. I don't really know why he missed that tour, I think he may have had business interests but I cbf looking it up, but the point is he'd hardly missed out or struggled in England before. If he plays that series Australia wins it 3-1 or 4-0 tbh. Pakistan in 82-83 also a weird one. He toured there in 79/80 and made nearly 400 runs at 80*, so it isn't like he couldn't play there. The decks there were regarded as pretty flat back then.

I suspect, but have no way of knowing for sure, that he missed England because he was mentally shattered in 81, even though he didn't admit it. I also think he missed India because he would have heard a thousand stories from team mates that it was a shithole to tour back then. Those stories were rife after the 1969-70 tour.




*Famously overshadowed by TOTAB who made 395 at 131, including 150 in each dig of the first test. The first man to do so.

 

[ataraxia]

I don't think they were tough conditions on the field for players from Australia back then tbh. The Indian attack was pretty ordinary tbh and Chappell was an awesome player of spin. Likewise with England in 81. I don't really know why he missed that tour, I think he may have had business interests but I cbf looking it up, but the point is he'd hardly missed out or struggled in England before. If he plays that series Australia wins it 3-1 or 4-0 tbh. Pakistan in 82-83 also a weird one. He toured there in 79/80 and made nearly 400 runs at 80*, so it isn't like he couldn't play there. The decks there were regarded as pretty flat back then.

I suspect, but have no way of knowing for sure, that he missed England because he was mentally shattered in 81, even though he didn't admit it. I also think he missed India because he would have heard a thousand stories from team mates that it was a shithole to tour back then. Those stories were rife after the 1969-70 tour.




*Famously overshadowed by TOTAB who made 395 at 131, including 150 in each dig of the first test. The first man to do so.

But Chappell scored more runs. That's the reason why Tendulkar is rated above Kallis. So many double standards here tbf. I know I'm comparing apples and oranges, but double standards are absolutely everywhere. And triple standards are just normal standards misrepresented by an outlier.

 

[Prince EWS]

Another controversial opinion from my side : If Richards played in modern era , he wouldn't be rated higher than Ponting in test. Richards averaged 44 in Asia and the spin bowling attacks he faced was nowhere near to what Ponting faced in IND and SL . IND at home during Ponting's time were much stronger as compared to Richard's time . Also let's not forget Ponting was successful against Muralitharan whom Richards never faced and there is no guarantee he would have been successful against Murali consider his 44 average in Asia.

Ponting was as good as Richards against fast bowling .

This is a controversial opinion from my side . Please don't lynch me online

Stop waving a flag and taking a "side" ffs. You should absolutely be able to post this opinion without tempering it with a bunch of this crap. Develop your own opinions instead of finding clever ways to justify the package of opinions you seem to have inherited.

 

[sunilz]

Ok the 3 tests were in 79/80

 

[srbhkshk]

Another controversial opinion from my side : If Richards played in modern era , he wouldn't be rated higher than Ponting in test. Richards averaged 44 in Asia and the spin bowling attacks he faced was nowhere near to what Ponting faced in IND and SL . IND at home during Ponting's time were much stronger as compared to Richard's time . Also let's not forget Ponting was successful against Muralitharan whom Richards never faced and there is no guarantee he would have been successful against Murali consider his 44 average in Asia.

Ponting was as good as Richards against fast bowling .

This is a controversial opinion from my side . Please don't lynch me online

Ponting is under-rated here, during his playing days he was not considered particularly (if at all) lesser than Sachin and Lara. Also a great ODI player. Perhaps the fact that he competes with Brandman for the test XI and Kohli/Viv for the ODI one makes people mention him less.

 

[OverratedSanity]

@ Burgey :
Chappell toured Pak in 79/80. Am I missing something. Why does it not show in cricinfo?

https://www.espncricinfo.com/scores/series/17056/australia-tour-of-pakistan-1979-80

Failed on the one pitch that helped the spinners. Fake AB did well in every test.

 

[sunilz]

https://www.espncricinfo.com/scores/series/17056/australia-tour-of-pakistan-1979-80

Failed on the one pitch that helped the spinners. Fake AB did well in every test.

Yes remember it . Scored all his runs in the only test Imran and Qadir didn't play. Like Dravid in Aus

 

[_00_deathscar]

My wife keeps talking about wanting to go to Goa ffs. It's very much a tour I would be delighted to miss as I could think of few things worse than traveling for a day to get to a place with beaches worse than what we have here and which is basically Surfers paradise with more earthy odours. My doing so doesn't mean I have a personality defect, though there are a lot of other things which probably suggest I do. it'll no doubt be another argument I lose 1-1 though.

Well for starters if you’re going to Goa for the beaches you’re doing it wrong to begin with. Goa is incredible and it has nothing to do with the beaches which are considerably mediocre.

 

[_00_deathscar]

because he was mentally shattered in 81, even though he didn't admit it.

That’s because, like all Australians, despite pretending to be alpha male, they’re all weak. “Mentally shattered” for ****s sake man up. Imagine what would have happened to him if he had to deal with the pressure of a billion people instead of some bratty Aussies.

 

[stephen]

Mark Waugh has no business being in the same sentence as the other three when it comes to ODI batting. But between those 3, I would still not call it with any certainty to anyone,yet, coz Sachin was just as ridiculous with his ODI run in his time as Kohli and the real AB have been in this generation.

Mark Waugh was an exceptional ODI opener and definitely belongs in the discussion. He averaged 45 in the role and was completely awesome. A notch down from the others, but definitely within cooey.

 

[Burgey]

But Chappell scored more runs. That's the reason why Tendulkar is rated above Kallis. So many double standards here tbf. I know I'm comparing apples and oranges, but double standards are absolutely everywhere. And triple standards are just normal standards misrepresented by an outlier.

I don’t follow what you mean? Border Scored more runs than chappell on that tour. And overall, ofc.

 

[ataraxia]

I don’t follow what you mean? Border Scored more runs than chappell on that tour. And overall, ofc.

Sorry I read "nearly 400" as "400".

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yes remember it . Scored all his runs in the only test Imran and Qadir didn't play. Like Dravid in Aus

It's not even only that Imran and Qadir didn't play (because I think judging the strength of an attack purely by the names involved can be misleading) , it's that in the first test the spinners picked up 28 of the 33 wickets to fall and in the other two tests, the spinners got stomped for the most part. I'm having a hard time finding the match reports because cricinfo have ****ed things up completely, so it's possible the pitch wasn't as flat for the spinners as the scorecard is making it seem.

 

[Burgey]

Well for starters if you’re going to Goa for the beaches you’re doing it wrong to begin with. Goa is incredible and it has nothing to do with the beaches which are considerably mediocre.

I don’t want to go there at all. It’s not a part of the world I have the slightest interest in visiting.

So I’ll probably be there sometime next year.

 

[Logan]

I don’t think Ponting is underrated here.

Only behind Sachin and Lara in Tests. Better than Lara in ODIs.

Arguably second best Aussie batsman ever.