The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[GoodAreasShane]

Lefty XI (from the top of my head so this can do with a huge amount of improvement)

Hayden
Warner
Lara
Border
Sobers
Hussey
Gilchrist+
Davidson
Johnson
Akram
Herath

Nice side, Chanderpaul a touch unlucky perhaps

 

[CricAddict]

Lefty XI (from the top of my head so this can do with a huge amount of improvement)

Hayden
Warner
Lara
Border
Sobers
Hussey
Gilchrist+
Davidson
Johnson
Akram
Herath

Is there any additional criteria in this team apart from being a leftie? Is Warner the best left handed opener ever?

 

[stephen]

Is there any additional criteria in this team apart from being a leftie? Is Warner the best left handed opener ever?

No, hence the room for improvement.

I was doing it from the top of my head. I considered Langer but he was the only other lefty opener who came to mind.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Pretty clear to me tbh, and I'm definitely not an ABdV fanboy in Tests.

Although if we're saying "batsman must have batted in this position for a substantial proportion of their career, and especially after becoming established in the team", then fair enough.

tbh I would probably go with Hussey ahead of ABdV for Tests, just purely on their batting. Definitely raises my eyebrows that you consider AB obviously superior, but I can see why. He definitely had more of a wow-factor and Hussey was more the workman

 

[TheJediBrah]

Lefty XI (from the top of my head so this can do with a huge amount of improvement)

Hayden
Warner
Lara
Border
Sobers
Hussey
Gilchrist+
Davidson
Johnson
Akram
Herath

Goes to show how good left-handers have really become more of a thing in the last few decades. Of course this could just be because Stephen couldn't think of any but neither can I. Almost all the ATG players from prior to the 80s I can think of are right-handers. Interesting isn't it?

 

[CricAddict]

No, hence the room for improvement.

I was doing it from the top of my head. I considered Langer but he was the only other lefty opener who came to mind.

Yes, even to me, Cook, Smith, Anwar and Jayasuriya are the only other names that come to mind. But it is quite a surprising revelation to me that Warner is the best ever leftie opener if that is the case.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yes, even to me, Cook, Smith, Anwar and Jayasuriya are the only other names that come to mind. But it is quite a surprising revelation to me that Warner is the best ever leftie opener if that is the case.

Being Australian gives him bonus points

 

[Bolo]

Although if we're saying "batsman must have batted in this position for a substantial proportion of their career, and especially after becoming established in the team", then fair enough.

I don't think this is the case for the team though- it has kallis batting 5, which he barely did and with little success. Seems more like a role in the team than specific batting position.

If we are making a call on how well he woild do AB is fine at 6. If we are making one purely on what they did in that position, AB is the best number 5 in both formats- kallis gets promoted or dropped.

 

[stephen]

I don't think this is the case for the team though- it has kallis batting 5, which he barely did and with little success. Seems more like a role in the team than specific batting position.

If we are making a call on how well he woild do AB is fine at 6. If we are making one purely on what they did in that position, AB is the best number 5 in both formats- kallis gets promoted or dropped.

The main issue with dropping Kallis is the need for a fifth bowler in ODIs.

And I was taking liberties by saying normal batting position +/- 1.

 

[Spark]

tbh I would probably go with Hussey ahead of ABdV for Tests, just purely on their batting. Definitely raises my eyebrows that you consider AB obviously superior, but I can see why. He definitely had more of a wow-factor and Hussey was more the workman

I mean, ABdV batted most of his career on more challenging pitches, has a more impressive away record, and has a more impressive litany of performances against high-quality attacks in difficult circumstances. Sure, his average is boosted a little by a few instances of world-class downhill skiing, but then again so is Hussey's.

 

[stephen]

Yes, even to me, Cook, Smith, Anwar and Jayasuriya are the only other names that come to mind. But it is quite a surprising revelation to me that Warner is the best ever leftie opener if that is the case.

Actually I change my vote to Bill Lawry.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

If there’s no time restraints on the lefty XI Arthur Morris is worth considering.

 

[stephen]

As an aside, while trying to find a great left handed opener, I stumbled across the fact that Victor Trumper was a key figure in the creation of the NSWRL (later NRL) and served as treasurer for it.

 

[stephen]

If there’s no time restraints on the lefty XI Arthur Morris is worth considering.

Could be a worthwhile shout. There's no outstanding 50+ averaging lefty openers other than Hayden. There's a few mid-40s openers who are all in with a good shout. There's also a few middle order batsmen who should be considered that I didn't mention (Chanderpaul, Harvey, Ganguly etc...).

But the hardest one was bowlers. There's virtually no left arm quicks of ATG status. Davidson and Akram are head and shoulders over the next two choices.

Shakib is worth mentioning as an all rounder but gets thumped by Sobers for that role.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Ganguly is a bit of a stretch

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Sangakkara perhaps.

 

[Bolo]

The main issue with dropping Kallis is the need for a fifth bowler in ODIs.

And I was taking liberties by saying normal batting position +/- 1.

AB averages 78 and strikes at 109 while batting 5 (42 innings). Better record but meaningless sample size from 6. Hussey averages 40 and strikes at 88 (62 innings) from 6. If you allow any flexibility, it's a bit of a no contest.

If you allow no flexibility, AB has to bat 5- he has the best record ever in both formats. Plus Kallis wasn't a number 5. Can drop Sanga and promote Kallis if you want the bowling.

 

[bagapath]

Lara bowled right handed, I think

And I am sure Hayden bowled right arm medium.

That should disqualify them, if we are going to be strict here

 

[harsh.ag]

Gilly bowled right handed. Disqualified!

 

[TheJediBrah]

Gilchrist, Hussey, Warner, Hayden, Lara, Harvey, Chanderpaul, Ganguly, G Smith are all actually right-handers

pretty sure Sangakkara is too. edit: Alistair Cook too.

If you're limiting it to only "actual" left-handers you'll need to make wholesale changes