The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[trundler]

Bit weird to seperate players by decade when their careers are usually divided between them. Sanga was great but retired halfway through and a 10s XI without Amla feels wrong.

 

[mr_mister]

Was watching footage of the '95/96 Aus/SL series on youtube (a bloke, not robelinda, as uploaded extended highlights of all 3 tests) and there's a moment where Murali drops a straight forward caught and bowled in one of the tests. Greigy on comms iirc says something like 'hes normally a great fielder, this is out of character for him'


so was this great fielding phase of murali's career veeeery early on, before even this series that elevated his fame?

 

[Coronis]

Bit weird to seperate players by decade when their careers are usually divided between them. Sanga was great but retired halfway through and a 10s XI without Amla feels wrong.

Well I mean the whole point of a decade XI is to be based on performances from that time frame... I dont really care what “feels” right, Sanga was absolutely ridiculous this decade. 4851 @ 61.40 with 17 100’s speaks for itself. Only player with a better record this decade is Smith.

 

[trundler]

Amla's decline ruins his record but he was absolutely insane at his peak. Not saying you're wrong which is why I based my comment on emotion.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Cook
Warner
Sanga (wk)
Smith
Kohli
Younis
Shakib
Herath
Steyn
Rabada
Anderson

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'd pick Jadeja or Ashwin ahead of Herath. Otherwise that's a very long tail

 

[Malcolm]

Cook
Warner
Sanga (wk)
Smith
Kohli
Younis
Shakib
Herath
Steyn
Rabada
Anderson

Sangakkara never kept wickets in this decade.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Im sure he'd manage just fine

 

[Malcolm]

Alastair Cook
David Warner
Hashim Amla
Steve Smith
AB de Villiers
Shakib Al Hassan
Quinten de Kock (wk)
Ravi Ashwin (c)
Pat Cummins
Dale Steyn
Jimmy Anderson

 

[morgieb]

Alastair Cook
David Warner
Hashim Amla
Steve Smith
AB de Villiers
Shakib Al Hassan
Quinten de Kock (wk)
Ravi Ashwin (c)
Pat Cummins
Dale Steyn
Jimmy Anderson

Given the middle order options I'd be prepared to pick another middle order option and give AB the gloves. In any case I don't think I'd pick him as the 3rd best middle order option.

I'll probably start a thread later in the year/early new year for CW to select their 2010's Test XI.

 

[trundler]

Not if I do it first..

 

[Coronis]

Given the middle order options I'd be prepared to pick another middle order option and give AB the gloves. In any case I don't think I'd pick him as the 3rd best middle order option.

I'll probably start a thread later in the year/early new year for CW to select their 2010's Test XI.

AB was pretty crazy this decade too, averaged like 57.5

 

[morgieb]

AB was pretty crazy this decade too, averaged like 57.5

He was. And yet, there was still arguably better. Chanders and YK averaged like 60, for example. So did Kumar.

An excellent decade for middle order bats but other than Cook and Warner **** all good openers.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I'd have probably put AB in the team if not for the fact that he didn't play tests for almost 2 years when the team actually needed him.

 

[a massive zebra]

He was. And yet, there was still arguably better. Chanders and YK averaged like 60, for example. So did Kumar.

An excellent decade for middle order bats but other than Cook and Warner **** all good openers.

Bit harsh on Graeme Smith and Virender Sehwag. I know they were at their best in the previous decade, but both remained class players towards the end of their careers and put up perfectly respectable numbers in the 2010s as well. In this decade, Smith scored 2,814 runs @ 45.38 with 9 centuries and Sehwag 2,338 @ 42.50 with 6 centuries.

Would be more accurate to say **** all good openers have come into the game in the 2010s. Azhar Ali, Chris Rogers and Aiden Markram all have decent averages, but they all played less than 25 Tests as opener. Tom Latham has the best average of any opener with an extended career who began his career in the 2010s: 3,164 runs @ 43.34 with 9 centuries. However, his credible record is entirely dependent on extreme minnow bashing against sides with poor fast bowling resources. If we exclude Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe, Latham's record as opener is 1,670 runs @ 30.92 with 2 centuries.

Among those who played for the majority of this decade, Tamim Iqbal has been the third best opener after Cook and Warner. He has made 3,680 runs @ 41.81 with 8 centuries and no evidence of minnow bashing. Although Tamim's figures are perfectly respectable for an individual player, it really says something when the third best opener across all countries in an entire decade averages low 40s.

 

[morgieb]

Bit harsh on Graeme Smith and Virender Sehwag. I know they were at their best in the previous decade, but both remained class players towards the end of their careers and put up perfectly respectable numbers in the 2010s as well. In this decade, Smith scored 2,814 runs @ 45.38 with 9 centuries and Sehwag 2,338 @ 42.50 with 6 centuries.

Would be more accurate to say **** all good openers have began their Test careers in the 2010s. Azhar Ali, Chris Rogers and Aiden Markram all have decent averages, but they all played less than 25 Tests as opener. Tom Latham has the best average of any opener with an extended career who began his career in the 2010s: 3,164 runs @ 43.34 with 9 centuries. However, his credible record is entirely dependent on extreme minnow bashing against sides with poor fast bowling resources. If we exclude Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, Latham's record as opener is 1,670 runs @ 30.92 with 2 centuries.

Both of them finished up quite early though, which is a problem regarding this. Also Sehwag's runs come exclusively from 2010 IIRC.

 

[stephen]

This decade really can be split down the middle. Bowling attacks have grown a lot stronger in the second half of the decade and a few great batsmen have retired. I mean picking current batsmen only your batting attack would be something like:

Warner
Azhar
Pujara
Smith
Kohli
Williamson
Bairstow
Cummins
Rabada
Abbas
Lyon

 

[AnthonyC]

Hmmm a purely ICC stats Australian ATG, with the latest ratings...(Not saying this is my ATG 11, just following the ICC stats)
2 top openers, 4 batsman, keeper (batting rating) and 4 top bowlers (bowling rating)

Player Rating No
Hayden 935 12
Warner 880 46
Bradman 961 1
Smith 947 2
Ponting 942 4
Walters 922 18
Gilchrist 874 55
Davidson 908 16
Cummins 914 5
Warne 905 18
McGrath 914 5

The bowling actually has great variety and is a strong batting tail.
I get the point of putting in Miller as the best all rounder at 6, with Bradman, Gilchrist and that tail, you can weaken the batting, and Walters is really a home specialist

Next Opener is Lawry 878 48
Next Batsman are Hussey and Harvey at 921 and 20
Next bowlers are O'Reilly and Grimmet at 901 and 23, and then Johnston 900 25

 

[Coronis]

Hmmm a purely ICC stats Australian ATG, with the latest ratings...(Not saying this is my ATG 11, just following the ICC stats)
2 top openers, 4 batsman, keeper (batting rating) and 4 top bowlers (bowling rating)

Player Rating No
Hayden 935 12
Warner 880 46
Bradman 961 1
Smith 947 2
Ponting 942 4
Walters 922 18
Gilchrist 874 55
Davidson 908 16
Cummins 914 5
Warne 905 18
McGrath 914 5

The bowling actually has great variety and is a strong batting tail.
I get the point of putting in Miller as the best all rounder at 6, with Bradman, Gilchrist and that tail, you can weaken the batting, and Walters is really a home specialist

Next Opener is Lawry 878 48
Next Batsman are Hussey and Harvey at 921 and 20
Next bowlers are O'Reilly and Grimmet at 901 and 23, and then Johnston 900 25

England for comparison
Hobbs 942
Hutton 945
May 941
Root 917
Compton 917
Barrington 914
Prior 745 (i think)
Botham 911
Barnes 932
Lohmann 931
Lock 912

 

[a massive zebra]

Wow, Lock is massively overrated by the ICC ratings!

Lock's overall average is very misleading. He took 47 wickets @ 7.80 against New Zealand who at that time were amongst the weakest Test sides ever seen. Against all the other sides, he took 127 wickets at 32.15. He averaged over 25 with a strike rate over 74 against every other side. Given the favourable era in which he played, when compared with contemporaries like Laker, Wardle and Appleyard who all averaged under 22, this is a relatively run of the mill bowling resume; despite what his overall average may suggest at first glance from a modern perspective.