The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[honestbharani]

Skippers XI for ODIs

Jayasuriya
Ganguly
Viv Richards
Ponting
de Villiers
Dhoni
Imran
Shakib
S.Pollock
Akram
Waqar

Are you basing on this some criteria of how many wins these guys had as skippers? If not, I think Sachin should surely be there and Lara deserves a look in too..

 

[bagapath]

Skippers XI for tests

Hutton
Smith
Bradman
Richards
Sobers
Imran
Dhoni +
S.Pollock
Benaud
Willis
Walsh

 

[smash84]

Skippers XI for ODIs

Jayasuriya
Ganguly
Viv Richards
Ponting
de Villiers
Dhoni
Imran
Shakib
S.Pollock
Akram
Waqar

kapil deserves to be there in the ODI captains XI

 

[Red]

Totally thought that Hadlee was NZ's captain for a time, but apparently he never was.

 

[Red]

All rounders XI (I'm bored)


Bob Simpson
Bruce Mitchell
Jaques Kallis
Garry Sobers
Ian Botham
Aubrey Faulkner
Adam Gilchrist
Keith Miller
Kapil Dev
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee

 

[SuperMurali]

I know that Gilly and Jayasuriya are generally considered as better, but after another smashing start by BMac in this world cup I've decided that he will be one of the openers in my best ODI side that I've seen live

H Amla
B McCullum (c)
J Kallis
V Kohli
AB de Villiers
Y Singh
MS Dhoni (wk)
S Pollock
G McGrath
A Donald
M Muralidaran

 

[Gowza]

Allrounders XI

Bruce Mitchell
Eddie Barlow
Jacqueline Kallis
Garry Sobers
Keith Miller
Aubrey Faulkner
Adam Gilchrist
Ian Botham
Mike Procter
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee

 

[bagapath]

All rounders XI (I'm bored)


Bob Simpson
Bruce Mitchell
Jaques Kallis
Garry Sobers
Ian Botham
Aubrey Faulkner
Adam Gilchrist
Keith Miller
Kapil Dev
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee

To play against

Rhodes
Mankad
Hammond
A. Flower+
Greig
Noble
Flintoff
S. Pollock
Benaud *
Akram
Lindwall

 

[Dan]

I know that Gilly and Jayasuriya are generally considered as better, but after another smashing start by BMac in this world cup I've decided that he will be one of the openers in my best ODI side that I've seen live

H Amla
B McCullum (c)
J Kallis
V Kohli
AB de Villiers
Y Singh
MS Dhoni (wk)
S Pollock
G McGrath
A Donald
M Muralidaran

With the structure of that batting order, it might actually work really well. Kallis as an ODI pseudo-opener (let's face it, Baz will be out early-ish, even if he comes off) is an interesting prospect.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I have no idea how Kallis got so overrated in ODis all of a sudden as a batsman. He deservedly got the admiration he always deserved in tests towards the end of his career, but I personally think people have gone way over the top extending that praise to ODIs. I wouldn't have Kallis anywhere near an AT ODI XI. Pollock and Klusener have him comfortably beat as far as South African all rounders go.

 

[Red]

Kallis is a pretty decent ODI bat, plus a good 5th bowling option. As a package he gives an ATG team a fair bit of flexibility because he allows your keeper to bat at 7. If you slot Gilly and Kallis in the top 3/4 it gives you insanely long batting.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Kallis is a pretty decent ODI bat, plus a good 5th bowling option. As a package he gives an ATG team a fair bit of flexibility because he allows your keeper to bat at 7. If you slot Gilly and Kallis in the top 3/4 it gives you insanely long batting.

Well yeah, he's a great player, didn't say otherwise. I don't think he brings anywhere near the kind of all round brilliance players like Flintoff, Klusener and Pollock bring to a side.

And looking at players too much from the angle of team balance misses the point of who is actually better imo.

 

[Red]

Well yeah, he's a great player, didn't say otherwise. I don't think he brings anywhere near the kind of all round brilliance players like Flintoff, Klusener and Pollock bring to a side.

And looking at players too much from the angle of team balance misses the point of who is actually better imo.

That's true, but I always kind of think team balance. I usually like to include Wasim in a test AT XI, because of the left arm thing. I probably don't think he's the third best quick ever, but he's close enough that the left arm thing swings it in his favor.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah but while Wasim's the greatest left armer ever (sorry Davidson) ,Klusener Pollock and Flintoff are all better all-rounders-who-bowl-right-arm-fast-medium-and-play-for-teams-who-bottle-it-in-world-cups than Kallis.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

All time NZ ODI side:

1. Guptill
2. McCullum (wk coz it's career-based)
3. Williamson
4. Crowe (c)
5. Taylor
6. Anderson/Cairns (too close to call imo)
7. Hadlee
8. Vettori
9. Bond
10. Southee
11. Boult

Interesting that 7 or 8 of the team are playing at the moment.

For those who disagree with Guptill over Astle:

Nathan Astle
Ave: 34.92
SR: 72.64
HS: 145*
100s: 16/223 matches (7.2% chance)
50s: 41/223 matches (18.4% chance)

Martin Guptill
Ave: 40.04
SR: 83.14
HS: 237*
100s: 7/107 matches (6.5% chance)
50s: 22/107 matches (20.6% chance)

So Guptill has a 5 run higher average, 10 runs/100 balls better SR. Astle shades him on centuries scored per innings but given his average this tells me that Astle failed a lot and was hit and miss (which I remember anyway).

 

[OverratedSanity]

So Guptill has a 5 run higher average, 10 runs/100 balls better SR. Astle shades him on centuries scored per innings but given his average this tells me that Astle failed a lot and was hit and miss (which I remember anyway).

Just a reflection of the eras maybe? Don't think Astle was any more hit and miss than Guptill, really. Averages and SRs have absolutely shot up in the last 5 years.

Wouldn't say there's anything wrong in selecting Guptill over him mind

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Yeah fair point, and openers are always going to be more hit and miss than other bats because of the new ball factor, but I get the feeling that most Kiwi posters would go for Astle and I don't think it's anywhere near as close as nostalgia would make out.

 

[Flem274*]

Astle | Turner | Crowe* | Taylor | Williamson | Cairns | McCullum mk I (wk) | Hadlee | Vettori | Mills | Bond

Astle and Turner clearly the best imo, and you could order the middle order however you like. I put Crowe at #3 to counter the pace, Taylor at #4 so he can still anchor and Kane at #5 to be the ultimate ruthless middle overs batsman

Second XI ftr

Guptill | McCullum mk II* | Fleming | Styris | Twose | Anderson | Ronchi (wk) | Harris or Oram | Southee | Boult(!) | Morrison

Bear in mind this is mostly based on career so Mills gets a huge boost. Elliott sneaking verrry close to Twose/Styris level and Jesse a bit unlucky as was Greatbatch. Chatfield, ten million middle overs wobblers and Allott also so close.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

1. Astle
2. Turner
3. Fleming
4. Crowe
5. Taylor
6. Cairns [3]
7. McCullum+
8. Harris [5]
9. Hadlee [1]
10. Vettori [4]
11. Bond [2]

Batting depth is crazy

 

[midge]

So many great players played this wonderful game; each with their unique ability to win matches single-handedly. But the best eleven will have to be picked keeping the balance of side in mind.

So here's my best playing eleven:

What do you think?