Why is Viv plummeting?Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Chappell
Tendulkar
Sobers
Gilchrist
Hadlee
Marshall
Warne
Steyn.
Viv plummeting down my list while Steyn is now my second choice pacer. Barnes in for hadlee with murali in for warne every other day of the week.
Hasn't been in great form lately.Why is Viv plummeting?
He's been sliding down too; he's just sliding from a higher position obviously.Neither had Bradman, but it hasn't hurt him at all.
Just don't rate him as much as i used to, or rather i just rate Chappell and Tendulkar more in the context of ATG sides, whereas Viv used to be the third middle order bat i would pick. I'm rating longevity and consistency a lot more these days, so Chappell is in for Viv for the same reason Tendulkar is in for Lara. Not that i don't rate Viv, because at is peak he was second-equal with sobers imo, just that he couldn't sustain it puts him behind a couple of others.Why is Viv plummeting?
Pretty weird logic that you use longevity as a reason to pick Chappell over Viv. Consider this : Viv's terminal decline began in late 1988. At that point, he had played 14 years of international cricket and averaged 54 over 100+ tests. Greg Chappell played only 13 years of cricket with 87 tests. When Viv's career before his decline was already longer than Chappell's ENTIRE career, I can't see how people can still say longevity was a factor in Chappell's favour. It's much the same in a comparison with Ponting, who also enjoyed 12-13 years of excellent productivity but because he declined at the end, he's automatically downgraded below Chappell.Just don't rate him as much as i used to, or rather i just rate Chappell and Tendulkar more in the context of ATG sides, whereas Viv used to be the third middle order bat i would pick. I'm rating longevity and consistency a lot more these days, so Chappell is in for Viv for the same reason Tendulkar is in for Lara. Not that i don't rate Viv, because at is peak he was second-equal with sobers imo, just that he couldn't sustain it puts him behind a couple of others.
He has the excuse of being dead and thus not available for selection whereas Viv is very much available for selection but isn't getting picked.Neither had Bradman, but it hasn't hurt him at all.
Needs Jos Buttler as 12th man IMO.All Time England Foodstuffs XI
Alastair Cook
C.B. Fry*
Mark Butcher
Alan Lamb
Phil Mead
Fred Bakewell
Phil Mustard+
Graeme Swann
Walter Lees
Cec Parkin
Graeme Onions
12th Man: Sidney Kitcat
The Biblical Figures XI
MATTHEW Hayden
DAVID Boon
MARK Waugh
JOSEPH Root
ABRAHAM Benjamin de Villiers
ADAM Gilchrist +
ANDREW Flintoff
JACOB Oram
PETER Pollock
JOHN Snow
JAMES Anderson
12th Man: LUKE Wright
Assuming it's one per name, I'd take Hobbs as my first pick...The Biblical Figures XI
MATTHEW Hayden
DAVID Boon
MARK Waugh
JOSEPH Root
ABRAHAM Benjamin de Villiers
ADAM Gilchrist +
ANDREW Flintoff
JACOB Oram
PETER Pollock
JOHN Snow
JAMES Anderson
12th Man: LUKE Wright
Was about to make this argument, but you made it quite perfectly.Pretty weird logic that you use longevity as a reason to pick Chappell over Viv. Consider this : Viv's terminal decline began in late 1988. At that point, he had played 14 years of international cricket and averaged 54 over 100+ tests. Greg Chappell played only 13 years of cricket with 87 tests. When Viv's career before his decline was already longer than Chappell's ENTIRE career, I can't see how people can still say longevity was a factor in Chappell's favour. It's much the same in a comparison with Ponting, who also enjoyed 12-13 years of excellent productivity but because he declined at the end, he's automatically downgraded below Chappell.
I'd agree with you if Chappell had played 17-18 years like Viv and Ponting did, but unlike them didn't decline. As he didn't do that, he gets no points over Viv and Ponting in longevity or consistency stakes.
Chappell went 1 year in his career averaging less than 40 and 4 years in his career averaging less than 50, which is just phenomenal. In terms of consistency not even Sachin can match that. In comparison Viv had 8 years averaging less than 40, and 9 less than 50, so even at his peak he still wasn't that consistent.Pretty weird logic that you use longevity as a reason to pick Chappell over Viv. Consider this : Viv's terminal decline began in late 1988. At that point, he had played 14 years of international cricket and averaged 54 over 100+ tests. Greg Chappell played only 13 years of cricket with 87 tests. When Viv's career before his decline was already longer than Chappell's ENTIRE career, I can't see how people can still say longevity was a factor in Chappell's favour. It's much the same in a comparison with Ponting, who also enjoyed 12-13 years of excellent productivity but because he declined at the end, he's automatically downgraded below Chappell.
I'd agree with you if Chappell had played 17-18 years like Viv and Ponting did, but unlike them didn't decline. As he didn't do that, he gets no points over Viv and Ponting in longevity or consistency stakes.
I really couldn't disagree more. Why should averaging 55 for ten years and then 40 for five years be considered worse than averaging 55 for ten years and then retiring so your team can circle through various players averaging in the 30s instead? The latter is certainly more valuable... but if you play when your past your best for a decent portion of your career, then that has to impact on you're rated as a player.