It's a shame that Pak haven't seemed to want to play Rizwan consistently. 30 Tests (thus far) isn't much in this day and age. Him at 6 and Imran at 7 with a full 5 man attack is the other option structurally imo. Asif Iqbal is another option for 6 if people prefer him. Another option I looked at was replacing an opener but Majid's bowling wasn't successful enough to be the only 5th option and Mudassar with the bat I see as much of a downgrade on Anwar as Mushy is on MoYo, whilst being a somewhat worse bowler.
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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
capt_Luffy
International Captain
This begs the question, who are we even considering the wicky for Pak?? Latif? Moin? Bari? Rizwan? Sarfaraz? Imtiaz? Kakmal?? Hanif himself????
If not Rizwan then should be Latif or Imtiaz imo. Latif was another wk who should've played a lot more than he did. Was a comfortably better gloveman but kept getting left out for Moin due due the latter's supposedly better batting. Latif ended up with a better average smh.
Bari the best gloveman here but his batting was just too weak imo. Wouldn't want Hanif to be distracted from his batting with his somewhat makeshift glovework.
It's difficult to know just how good Imtiaz was as a gloveman overall though he definitely had times he was excellent. Difficult to pick between him and Latif if not picking Rizwan for the extra batting.
capt_Luffy
International Captain
If not Rizwan then Imtiaz let's you to take both Moyo and Mustaq
I guess you could WK/open with Imtiaz rather than batting him down the order. He was more effective with the bat there. I'm not sure weakening the top order is the best idea in these hypotheticals though. Mushy and Imran at 7/8 is serious #batdeep though.
capt_Luffy
International Captain
Yeah, but Moyo was a better bat than Anwar though. It's a like to like replacement.
Probably only longevity in that tbh. Anwar's average given the era he played is class, particularly as an opener. MoYo mostly made hay in the higher scoring era of the mid noughties. I would tend to still give it to MoYo though, but not by much and I do like two strong openers here, as with the quality of the bowling you'd expect them to face, using a weaker one would imo put too much pressure on the stronger one to get the team off to a good start.
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
It’s been a while since I’ve picked a few XIs so I might as well start an argument with someone
Aus
Simpson
Morris
Bradman
Chappell
Ponting
Miller
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
OReilly
McGrath
WI
Greenidge
Worrell
Richards
Weekes
Lara
Sobers
Walcott
Marshall
Garner
Gibbs
Ambrose
Eng
Hutton
Hobbs
Hammond
May
Root
Ames
Botham
Laker
Bedser
Trueman
Barnes
SA
Richards
Smith
Kallis
Pollock
DeVilliers
Faulkner
Waite
Procter
Tayfield
Steyn
Donald
Aus
Simpson
Morris
Bradman
Chappell
Ponting
Miller
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
OReilly
McGrath
WI
Greenidge
Worrell
Richards
Weekes
Lara
Sobers
Walcott
Marshall
Garner
Gibbs
Ambrose
Eng
Hutton
Hobbs
Hammond
May
Root
Ames
Botham
Laker
Bedser
Trueman
Barnes
SA
Richards
Smith
Kallis
Pollock
DeVilliers
Faulkner
Waite
Procter
Tayfield
Steyn
Donald
It always upsets me that you could feasibly make a combined Aus/Eng XI from 1955 to the present day that includes no Englishmen.
Hayden
Simpson/Lawry
Ponting
Smith
Chappell
Border
Gilchrist
Davo/Cummins
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
Would be a perfectly reasonable way to go about it imo. Boycott could make it as an opener but I don't think there's much between him and the selected openers (also his fielding lets him down a bit compared to other choices). Root and Barrington are short for the middle order. Knott has to give way with the gloves. Most would pick Trueman but I personally think he's a bit overrated with his not special away record and kind of have him, Davo and Cummins fairly equal as bowlers. With that in mind, Davo's left arm and Cummins' 1st change specialism make them better pulls for me, not to mention their extra batting.
Trueman was an excellent fielder but Davo has him covered there too. Botham is a square peg in a round hole here imo. Weakens the bowling too much if batting in the bottom four and weakens the batting too much if batting in the top six. Chappell, Border and Simpson (if playing) can do the 5th bowling duties between them (with the very occasional bit of Ponting or Smith) and, particularly if Davo is playing, the side has bowlers who know a high workload so you wouldn't need much 5th bowling anyway. Also a magnificent fielding side all over the shop.
Sucks tbh.
Hayden
Simpson/Lawry
Ponting
Smith
Chappell
Border
Gilchrist
Davo/Cummins
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
Would be a perfectly reasonable way to go about it imo. Boycott could make it as an opener but I don't think there's much between him and the selected openers (also his fielding lets him down a bit compared to other choices). Root and Barrington are short for the middle order. Knott has to give way with the gloves. Most would pick Trueman but I personally think he's a bit overrated with his not special away record and kind of have him, Davo and Cummins fairly equal as bowlers. With that in mind, Davo's left arm and Cummins' 1st change specialism make them better pulls for me, not to mention their extra batting.
Trueman was an excellent fielder but Davo has him covered there too. Botham is a square peg in a round hole here imo. Weakens the bowling too much if batting in the bottom four and weakens the batting too much if batting in the top six. Chappell, Border and Simpson (if playing) can do the 5th bowling duties between them (with the very occasional bit of Ponting or Smith) and, particularly if Davo is playing, the side has bowlers who know a high workload so you wouldn't need much 5th bowling anyway. Also a magnificent fielding side all over the shop.
Sucks tbh.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Fixed.
Coronis
International Coach
Generally too bowler/allrounder heavy aside from the Windies for me. But who knows, hypothetically that could be more ideal in an ATG setup.
Specifically with Botham and Faulkner, I feel the 4 man attacks there already + Hammond and Kallis are sufficient. And there is a significant gap from say Barrington to Botham or Nourse to Faulkner. Miller makes a bit more sense due to Bradman.
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
I sway every way on these XIs but the selection of Miller as a genuine 3rd quick who bats top 6 allows you to pick Warne and OReilly. Imagine the potential carnage and spin aggression.
Obviously if you don’t want two spinners you trade Miller for Border/Harvey/Smith, pick Davo/Cummins/Lindwall instead of OReilly, and away you go, but having Bradman and Gilchrist available has always meant this XI makes sense to me.
Obviously if you don’t want two spinners you trade Miller for Border/Harvey/Smith, pick Davo/Cummins/Lindwall instead of OReilly, and away you go, but having Bradman and Gilchrist available has always meant this XI makes sense to me.
capt_Luffy
International Captain
I mean that's really how team balance works, you strengthen something and weaken something else.
Yeah but that's a side that doesn't need to be balanced like that.
capt_Luffy
International Captain
capt_Luffy
International Captain
I mean, I kinda like having Warne-O'Reilly together.
Yeah, I can see the appeal. I just don't think it's the best way for Aus to utilise their lavish resources.
capt_Luffy
International Captain
I would have Boycott over any of the openers, even considering everything. And well, you could get creative to include Botham given you extend the criteria a little back, like debut post WWII.....
Hayden
Boycott
Smith
Chappell
Border*
Miller
Gilchrist +
Botham
Lindwall
Warne
McGrath
Strangely, it only leads to inclusion of two Aussies in my team.....