CricketFan90s
State Vice-Captain
Five to do it all
Allrounders who could bat, bowl and sometimes field their sides to victory
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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
CricketFan90s
State Vice-Captain
Modern All Time XI of England (1975-2024) - 50 Years
1) Graham Gooch (c)
2) Alastair Cook
3) David Gower
4) Kevin Pietersen
5) Graham Thorpe
6) Alec Stewart +
7) Ian Botham
8) Andrew Flintoff
9) Graeme Swann
10) Stuart Broad
11) James Anderson
1) Graham Gooch (c)
2) Alastair Cook
3) David Gower
4) Kevin Pietersen
5) Graham Thorpe
6) Alec Stewart +
7) Ian Botham
8) Andrew Flintoff
9) Graeme Swann
10) Stuart Broad
11) James Anderson
TheJediBrah
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How do you have Thorpe ahead of Joe Root
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
and Stewart ahead of Prior?
CricketFan90s
State Vice-Captain
What makes you feel that root is better than Thorpe ?
CricketFan90s
State Vice-Captain
Stewart was better. He faced some of the best bowlers of all time and Wasim Akram rates him one of the best he faced. Stewart was also the highest run scorer in 90s.
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CricketFan90s
State Vice-Captain
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Stewart was a part-time keeper and top quality opener. Pick him as an opener or don't pick him.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
I would have Root for Thorpe, Stokes for Flintoff, and Prior for Stewart.
Stokes would also be the captain.
Stokes would also be the captain.
CricketFan90s
State Vice-Captain
Alec Stewart
| Is Designated Keeper | 1991-2003 | 82 | 145 | 15 | 4540 | 173 | 34.92 | 9135 | 49.69 | 6 | 23 | 11 | 601 | 10 |
| 6th Position | 1990-2003 | 29 | 44 | 3 | 1421 | 123 | 34.65 | 2951 | 48.15 | 1 | 11 | 4 | 178 | 1 |
| Is Designated Keeper | 2007-2014 | 79 | 123 | 21 | 4099 | 131* | 40.18 | 6647 | 61.66 | 7 | 28 | 13 | 492 | 16 |
| 7th Position | 2007-2014 | 61 | 82 | 14 | 2787 | 126* | 40.98 | 4553 | 61.21 | 4 | 20 | 8 | 334 | 11 |
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CricketFan90s
State Vice-Captain
I want a good 5th bowler in Flintoff compared to Stokes, Thorpe was a good batsmen of spin and was praised for playing murali effectively in Srilanka, Stewart for being able to face quality bowling.
Graham Thorpe
| 5th Position | 1995-2005 | 52 | 78 | 18 | 3373 | 200* | 56.21 | 7292 | 46.25 | 10 | 18 | 3 | 394 | 7 |
Australian cricket team in England in 1997 - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
SL vs ENG Cricket Scorecard, 3rd Test at Colombo, March 15 - 17, 2001
Get cricket scorecard of 3rd Test, SL vs ENG, England tour of Sri Lanka 2000/01 at Sinhalese Sports Club Ground, Colombo dated March 15 - 17, 2001.
www.espncricinfo.com
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kyear2
International Coach
Top 20 Batsman
Bradman
Tendulkar
Sobers
Hobbs
Richards
Smith
Lara
Hutton
Gavaskar
Ponting
Hammond
Kallis
Chappell
Headley
Border
Sangakkara
Sutcliffe
Pollock
Waugh
Dravid
Top 16 bowlers
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee
Steyn
Warne
Muralitharan
Ambrose
Imran
Donald
Lillee
O'Reilly
Wasim
Garner
Trueman
Holding
Davidson
Top 12 Slip fielders
Hammond
Simpson
Sobers
Chappell
Taylor
Waugh
Ponting
Richardson
Hooper
Kallis
Lloyd
Dravid
Top 10 all rounders
Sobers
Imran
Kallis
Gilchrist
Miller
Botham
Hadlee
Pollock
Jadeja
Kapil
Top 8 Captains
Benaud
Ranatunga
Taylor
Flemming
Worrell
Jardine
Lloyd
Imran
All Time XI & Squad
Sir John Hobbs
Barry Richards^
Sir Donald Bradman*
Sir. I. V. A. Richards^
Sachin Tendulkar
Sir Garfield Sobers^(5)
Adam Gilchrist +
Malcolm Marshall (1)
Shane Warne (4)
Dale Steyn (3)
Glenn McGrath (2)
Sir Leonard Hutton
Brian Lara
Sir Richard Hadlee
Muttiah Muralitharan
Injured reserves
Imran Khan
Jacques Kallis
Allan Knott
Top 25 cricketers of All Time
Tier 1
Bradman / Sobers / Marshall / Hobbs / Hadlee / McGrath / Tendulkar / Richards
Tier 2
Warne / Imran / Steyn / Muralitharan / Smith / Lara / Hammond / Kallis / Hutton / Gilchrist / Ambrose / Gavaskar / O'Reilly / Ponting / Wasim / Chappell / Headley
Bradman
Tendulkar
Sobers
Hobbs
Richards
Smith
Lara
Hutton
Gavaskar
Ponting
Hammond
Kallis
Chappell
Headley
Border
Sangakkara
Sutcliffe
Pollock
Waugh
Dravid
Top 16 bowlers
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee
Steyn
Warne
Muralitharan
Ambrose
Imran
Donald
Lillee
O'Reilly
Wasim
Garner
Trueman
Holding
Davidson
Top 12 Slip fielders
Hammond
Simpson
Sobers
Chappell
Taylor
Waugh
Ponting
Richardson
Hooper
Kallis
Lloyd
Dravid
Top 10 all rounders
Sobers
Imran
Kallis
Gilchrist
Miller
Botham
Hadlee
Pollock
Jadeja
Kapil
Top 8 Captains
Benaud
Ranatunga
Taylor
Flemming
Worrell
Jardine
Lloyd
Imran
All Time XI & Squad
Sir John Hobbs
Barry Richards^
Sir Donald Bradman*
Sir. I. V. A. Richards^
Sachin Tendulkar
Sir Garfield Sobers^(5)
Adam Gilchrist +
Malcolm Marshall (1)
Shane Warne (4)
Dale Steyn (3)
Glenn McGrath (2)
Sir Leonard Hutton
Brian Lara
Sir Richard Hadlee
Muttiah Muralitharan
Injured reserves
Imran Khan
Jacques Kallis
Allan Knott
Top 25 cricketers of All Time
Tier 1
Bradman / Sobers / Marshall / Hobbs / Hadlee / McGrath / Tendulkar / Richards
Tier 2
Warne / Imran / Steyn / Muralitharan / Smith / Lara / Hammond / Kallis / Hutton / Gilchrist / Ambrose / Gavaskar / O'Reilly / Ponting / Wasim / Chappell / Headley
ataraxia
International Coach
I know you don't like Imran man but is that really justification for injuring him out of the side?
kyear2
International Coach
Make the argument to convince me.
100% straight up.
Yes Imran potentially makes the team balance perfect (similar to Hammond really), but think Steyn (similar to Sachin) is comfortably the better bowler.
Tell me why I'm wrong.
ataraxia
International Coach
Two points:
- it requires a very precise methodology of rating bowlers so as to balance consideration of peak (a criterion by which Imran is easily superior to Steyn) and consideration of longevity (a criterion by which Imran is easily superior to Steyn) in such a manner that Steyn is better than Imran. I don't mean to say it's impossible or illogical to think so, by any means, but I don't believe that the ~80% of CW who rate Steyn above Imran are so homogenous in their rating of players (though I acknowledge alleged ball-tampering / favourable home umpiring – both of which, I must say, didn't exactly seem to help any of Imran's colleagues – weighting of strike rate v. economy, and one's opinion of a well-balanced attack are complicating factors).
- if you do think Steyn > Imran as a bowler, you must think that the difference between them is sizeable because at the absolute minimum the batting advantage Imran has over Steyn is 8 runs an innings and 16 runs a match, which is coincidentally precisely what Simpson's slipping advantage was calculated to be. While individual batters are less important than individual bowlers and therefore secondary disciplines are less important for bowlers, on the other hand that Simpson calculation did have at its head the unlikely (and proven wrong) assumption that Simpson was a perfect catcher.
kyear2
International Coach
Well done and I want to respond, not counter mind you... But it's 1 am and I want to to think through it properly.
I do believe there was the home ball tampering / umpiring, I also accept the point that it didn't help his teammates to the extent. But two points, how good would have he have been without them and his team mates, and quite frankly very few ever, were as good as him.
The reason I look so hard at his away record is because I'm not sure how much of his home record can be trusted.
As you also referenced, over 70% of the forum, including one of Imran's most fervent defenders, do believe Steyn was the better bowler. In such a contest or for such a prestigious honor, should't the better bowler get the benefit of the doubt? Especially in a team with literally the best batsmen, and best keepers batsman ever.
Yes the batting matters, nor even disputing that, but if you're facing the best of the best, shouldn't you go with your best bowlers if there's a clear distinction?
Of the three candidates for the spot.
If we're rating them by batting
Imran
Hadlee
Steyn
By bowling though
Hadlee
Steyn
Imran
No disrespect, no hate. Don't think the take is that behind the pale either.
CricketFan90s
State Vice-Captain
Second Team Which can Beat Your Team
1) Leonard Hutton
2) Sunil Gavaskar
3) Ricky Ponting
4) Jacques Kallis
5) Brian Lara
6) Kumar Sangakkara +
7) Keith Miller
8) Imran Khan (c)
9) Richard Hadlee
10) Curtly Ambrose
11) Muttiah Muralitharan
Victor Ian
International Coach
Let's not pretend Steyn was not the beneficiary of ball tampering. It's just than in his day ball tampering was done by a designated person who was not the bowler. Didn't a certain player come up to front tampering charges a few times and always get off scott free (not banned) to continue the practice?
TheJediBrah
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Usually was banned for a match at a time, when caught, which was rare
Coronis
International Coach
Better at home, better away, scores tons and fifties more often.