The ATG ODI World XIs Game

[Prince EWS]

Seems viable to me that he'd be a sound fifth option.

For a regular ODI? Sure.

At this level? Not even close IMO.

 

[Red]

For a regular ODI? Sure.

At this level? Not even close IMO.

I see the fifth bowler as someone who can bowl in the middle/late overs, which Klusener did. They generally go for a few more runs than others. But the fifth bowler basically has to be an all rounder as well.

Just to clarify, I'd choose Kapil over Klusener. But I certainly wouldn't have an issue with Klusener as the 5th bowler in the first or second XI.

We really should also be considering the merits of guys like Steve Waugh and Simon O'Donnell as pure ODI all rounders. Both excellent death/middle over bowlers who could bat very well. At one point, Steve Waugh was as good a one day bowler as anyone in the world.

 

[weldone]

I have no problem with selecting Klusener as the 5th bowler. But with him I'd need a 6th bowler, at least as backup. If not as good as Jayasuriya, someone like even Gayle or Symonds will do...or even someone like Yuvraj if you stretch it a bit...But I won't back Klusener to bowl 10 overs at this level match after match...

And guys like Steve Waugh will be more suitable to the 6th bowler role than 5th bowler in this kind of an all-time exercise.

 

[weldone]

Joel Garner
Richard Hadlee

Dean Jones

Isn't Garner already taken in 1st XI?

 

[Red]

I have no problem with selecting Klusener as the 5th bowler. But with him I'd need a 6th bowler, at least as backup. If not as good as Jayasuriya, someone like even Gayle or Symonds will do...or even someone like Yuvraj if you stretch it a bit...But I won't back Klusener to bowl 10 overs at this level match after match...

And guys like Steve Waugh will be more suitable to the 6th bowler role than 5th bowler in this kind of an all-time exercise.

I disagree (respectfully). If Klusener can't be relied on to bowl, why would you want someone like Gayle having a go? Essentially it'll mean the team are flying, and things are a bit out of hand. In which case good captaincy would mean going back to your strike or stock bowlers (McGrath, Hadlee etc) for a bit, rather than someone like Gayle.

I think Waugh as a stand alone 5th bowler is fine, along with 3 genuine quicks and a spinner. Seriously, the guy was as good as anyone before his back got ****ed up. And on some tracks and in some match situations, he's even better than the genuine quicks.

 

[weldone]

I disagree (respectfully). If Klusener can't be relied on to bowl, why would you want someone like Gayle having a go? Essentially it'll mean the team are flying, and things are a bit out of hand. In which case good captaincy would mean going back to your strike or stock bowlers (McGrath, Hadlee etc) for a bit, rather than someone like Gayle.

Forget Gayle for the time, think about Jayasuriya. Think about a bowling lineup of (Hadlee+Ambrose+Pollock+Saqlain+Klusener). On a dustbowl, won't you wish if you had more than 10 overs from a spinner to exploit the conditions?

 

[watson]

I see the fifth bowler as someone who can bowl in the middle/late overs, which Klusener did. They generally go for a few more runs than others. But the fifth bowler basically has to be an all rounder as well.

Just to clarify, I'd choose Kapil over Klusener. But I certainly wouldn't have an issue with Klusener as the 5th bowler in the first or second XI.

We really should also be considering the merits of guys like Steve Waugh and Simon O'Donnell as pure ODI all rounders. Both excellent death/middle over bowlers who could bat very well. At one point, Steve Waugh was as good a one day bowler as anyone in the world.

Here is Steve Waugh bowling to Viv Richards in peak fitness. He seems quicker than I remember;

Viv Richards vs Steve Waugh TAKE THAT VIV! 1988 1st test Gabba - YouTube

There was also a comment earlier in this thread that Steve Waugh wasn't a good batsman to have at the crease during the last 10 overs when some big hitting needed to be done. I suggest the opposite, as does this video;

Most imperious six in cricket history - YouTube

Given Waugh's brilliant fielding I don't think he would be out of place in any ATG ODI team;

Steve Waugh Classic Catch Australia v West Indies at MCG 198889 - YouTube

 

[smash84]

you missed his best delivery ever

Steve Waugh bowls Brian Lara with a beauty - Australia v West Indies at Mohali 1996 World Cup - YouTube

 

[Red]

Forget Gayle for the time, think about Jayasuriya. Think about a bowling lineup of (Hadlee+Ambrose+Pollock+Saqlain+Klusener). On a dustbowl, won't you wish if you had more than 10 overs from a spinner to exploit the conditions?

Yeh, probably. I guess it comes down to conditions and team balance. I'm thinking more Australian conditions, but I guess elsewhere a second spinner is needed.

 

[Cabinet96]

Yeah I agree; if Flintoff plays he should probably bat 5 or 6, but I'd have no issue with him doing that and Dhoni batting 7. Dhoni's batted below lots of worse ODI batsmen than Flintoff while playing for India.

I think Dhoni is the same though. He usually starts reasonably slowly before starting to smash it. It's one of the reasons his T20I strike rate is so poor in comparison to his ODI strike rate.

 

[hendrix]

has Watson been considered?

 

[watson]

You're forgetting Pollock. This will be lip-smacking:
6. Dhoni
7. Kapil
8. Pollock
9. Hadlee
10. Saqlain
11. Ambrose





Yes, what PEWS said...

Klusener was a good bowler - but I won't back him to consistently bowl 10 overs in every match regardless of conditions opposition etc, especially at this level. Klusener would do well with an established 6th bowler like Jayasuriya.

Have absolutely no problem with Kapil, and to a lesser extent Flintoff bowling 10 overs every match...

Yes weldone, that would be a superb bowling attack.

But I just want to go back to Imran Khan for a minute. The suggestion by some that he doesn't deserve to be in the first XI is inaccurate.

His figures are;

Wickets = 182
Average = 26.61
Strike Rate = 40.9
Economy Rate = 3.89
(Joel 'The Benchmark' Garner = 3.09 runs per over)

Any Economy Rate that is under 4 runs an over is excellent, and brilliant for a 5th bowler who is not expected to take wickets because that is the job of the opening bowlers. Incidently, 3.89 runs is exactly the same stat as Wasim Akram !

Also, it is generally accepted that Imran is the best batsman out of all the 'great allrounders'. He is therefore the perfect No.7 IMO. Especially when there is no tail to speak of.

 

[Jarquis]

Opening Bowlers
Richard Hadlee - 11
Shaun Pollock - 4
Allan Donald - 2
Brett Lee - 2
Dennis Lillee - 1
Curtley Ambrose - 1
Shane Bond -1
Waqar Younis -1

Number Three
Zaheer Abbas - 6
Dean Jones - 3
Jacques Kallis - 1
Mark Waugh - 1


Team Thus Far
1. Saeed Anwar
2. Hashim Amla
3. Zaheer Abbas
8. Shaun Pollock
9. Richard Hadlee
10. Saqlain Mushtaq

 

[Jarquis]

Select Your Wicket Keeper (Indicate the position for them to bat)
Mark Boucher, AB de Villiers, MS Dhoni, Kumar Sangakkara

Select The Final Two Bowlers (Likely to be #7 and #11)
Curtley Ambrose, Shane Bond, Nathan Bracken, Chris Cairns, Hansie Cronje, Allan Donald, Andrew Flintoff, Michael Holding, Kapil Dev, Lance Klusener, Dennis Lillee, Brett Lee, Craig McDermott, Shahid Afridi, Shoaib Akhtar, Andrew Symonds, Chaminda Vaas, Waqar Younis, Shane Warne, Shane Watson

 

[hendrix]

Gilchrist is already in the first 11 isn't he? Or does it change that he's not opening?

anyway,

Dhoni
Bond
Watson

 

[morgieb]

Dhoni
Donald
Kapil

 

[NUFAN]

Dhoni
Warne and Lee

I'm happy with Pollock, Lee, Hadlee, Warne and Saqlain behind a powerful top 6.

Whatever happens, I'll be disappointed if a quick strike bowler doesn't get selected to compliment Hadlee and Pollock.

EDIT: I also think it's a classy 5 bowlers. Currently the top 3 don't bowl so Im reluctant to weaken the batting at 4 and 5 by picking someone worse who can bowl a couple of overs that might e required if you include an all rounder possibly.

 

[Prince EWS]

Dhoni
Flintoff and Lee

 

[watson]

MSDhoni

Kapil Dev
Michael Holding (he should be quick enough for NUFAN, and has the numbers to match)

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Dhoni (6)

Waqar
Bond