The ``ASHES`` and the Pietersen diillema

[FaaipDeOiad]

I think social is pretty much on the money.

I will say though that the English bowling looks a lot better than I think it has been in a long time. Harmison is inconsistent but he's got a heap of talent and I think if he gets it right he will cause the Australians some trouble, and Flintoff and Hoggard are quality as well. The question marks are probably Jones and Giles, who I don't think will be very effective. Still, if Harmison fires early in the series it might take a while for the Australians to get on top of him, and if the others can support him I think they have the bowling presence to get 20 wickets.

The key to Australia is really that they manage to get on top of any one individual eventually, and if a side doesn't have other people who can stand up they will lose. Examples recently are Shoaib who had a great start in Perth but had no support, and also Murali, Lara, Sehwag etc in recent memory. There have been countless occasions when one or two players got on top but the rest of the side let them down. Last Ashes it happened as well, when England had Vaughan but nobody else, and it won't be enough this time if Harmison or Flintoff or Strauss or Pietersen have a great series, because they all have to do it at once.

 

[SJS]

I get the feeling that this might be 1 Ashes series too soon for England.

They are a very talented team, undoubtedly the no. 2 but there are too many "ifs"

1. Im not convinced about Strauss - there was a definite tapering off in form in SA and now teams have had a look at him for one season it will be much more difficult for him.

2. England does not have an established no. 3

3. Vaughan is still not in anything like the form he was in Aus.

4. Will Flintoff be fit?

5. Can Flintoff produce the batting form vs Aus that he shows vs lesser teams.

6. Geraint Jones is not a test class keeper

7. Giles is not a match-winning spinner and plays right into the Aus left-handers strengths

8. Anderson/Jones need to improve massively to be a threat

9. Harmison is out of form

As I said, they have the talent, but there are too many uncertainties to back them with any conviction.

Agree with almost everything.

I am not so sure if the Strauss tapering off bit is not a bit premature.

And the number three spot problem is true but purely of Englands own making. The same problem confronts Pakistan. The top batsmen in the side need to put their hands up. Either Vaughan or Thorpe (since Strauss is opening) need to make the position their own. Trying to fill it with people like Key who cant protest (forget the fact that they are totally ill equipped for this most important spot in the order) is like India putting any new comer at short leg to field since no senior player would agree to stand there !

PS: I am surprised that only 3 of the nine points are bowling related. I prefer to think that bowling is the bigger problem for England.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I regard Vettori as a better attacking bowler than Giles and he is also the Kiwis' main threat.

As a result, the Aussies have tended lately to sit on him and attack the others.

Giles' role at present seems to be one of containment and I think the Aussies will try to attack him in order to place more pressure on the others.

Clearly you weren't watching much cricket in England last year, then...

a) Giles does infact contain well, and the Aussies won't find it easy to attack him if he does

b) He doesn't try and contain much any more anyway. He does if it's needed, but he's far more attacking now - look at the English summer last year.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Vettori











Giles

Despite the fact that Giles far outbowled Vettori when England met New Zealand last summer?

 

[chaminda_00]

Despite the fact that Giles far outbowled Vettori when England met New Zealand last summer?

The fact that Vettori was injured had nothing to do with that, at full fittness Vettori is allot better bowler then Giles. Even so their both not the greatest bowlers, for me Rafique is a better bowler then both of them, but that is just my opinion.

Back to the issue i really can't see Giles troubling the Australian batsmen after seeing how much they improved aganist spin during their series aganist India and Sri Lanka. And this was aganist better spinners in the form of Harbarjan, Kumble, Murali and hearth.

 

[marc71178]

Vettori











Giles

I assume this is you trying to say that there's a huge difference between the 2?

I would have to categorically disagree - they are very very evenly matched players.

 

[marc71178]

The fact that Vettori was injured had nothing to do with that, at full fittness Vettori is allot better bowler then Giles.

He had one heck of a long injury a couple of years back then...

 

[SJS]

I assume this is you trying to say that there's a huge difference between the 2?

I would have to categorically disagree - they are very very evenly matched players.

IMHO as of date Giles has the edge.

 

[social]

Agree with almost everything.

I am not so sure if the Strauss tapering off bit is not a bit premature.

And the number three spot problem is true but purely of Englands own making. The same problem confronts Pakistan. The top batsmen in the side need to put their hands up. Either Vaughan or Thorpe (since Strauss is opening) need to make the position their own. Trying to fill it with people like Key who cant protest (forget the fact that they are totally ill equipped for this most important spot in the order) is like India putting any new comer at short leg to field since no senior player would agree to stand there !

PS: I am surprised that only 3 of the nine points are bowling related. I prefer to think that bowling is the bigger problem for England.

If Flintoff cant bowl and Anderson/Jones dont improve and Harmison remains out of form and Aussies take to Giles as they have in the past then .......

England has no bowling.

 

[SJS]

If Flintoff cant bowl and Anderson/Jones dont improve and Harmison remains out of form and Aussies take to Giles as they have in the past then .......

England has no bowling.

Yes, I would say it does look so. And if that situation remains, the British goose is well and truly cooked

 

[Swervy]

If Flintoff cant bowl and Anderson/Jones dont improve and Harmison remains out of form and Aussies take to Giles as they have in the past then .......

England has no bowling.

So England have no bowling only if a bunch of things happen or dont happen...

Its almost like saying If McGrath cant bowl,Lee doesnt improve etc etc..and the English take to such and such...Australia has no bowling.

Reality is Flintoff will probably be able to bowl,Harmison will still trouble batsmen,Hoggard will probably do ok,Giles is improved since whenever he last played Australia and Jones has performed pretty well recently to suggest he has improved over the last year.Foe me, England have probably the second best bowling attack in the world at the moment

the real difference between the two teams is the batting for me...Englands is solid enough (still prone to the silly collapses and daft shots), Australias is out of this world...

 

[SJS]

England have probably the second best bowling attack in the world at the moment

.

With Harmison in this form, I dont think that statement can be made with such sertainity.

 

[Swervy]

With Harmison in this form, I dont think that statement can be made with such sertainity.

name one team with a better bowling attack than the English one apart from the Aussies

 

[SJS]

name one team with a better bowling attack than the English one apart from the Aussies

Without Harmison, what is the attack.
Flintoff, Giles, Gough ??

Pakistan is better and on certain surfaces, India could be a handful.

I think a full and fit Kiwi attack may be a match too.

 

[social]

So England have no bowling only if a bunch of things happen or dont happen...

Its almost like saying If McGrath cant bowl,Lee doesnt improve etc etc..and the English take to such and such...Australia has no bowling.

Reality is Flintoff will probably be able to bowl,Harmison will still trouble batsmen,Hoggard will probably do ok,Giles is improved since whenever he last played Australia and Jones has performed pretty well recently to suggest he has improved over the last year.Foe me, England have probably the second best bowling attack in the world at the moment

the real difference between the two teams is the batting for me...Englands is solid enough (still prone to the silly collapses and daft shots), Australias is out of this world...

The whole point is that there are many "ifs" associated with England at the moment.

I think that Harmison is as talented as any fast bowler in the world - the problem is that he's miserably out of form and, IMO, not fit enough to sustain his attacks anyway.

In all likelihood, Flintoff will play but we have all seen these injuries take longer than anticipated to heal and there is no guarantee he'll be match fit at the commencement of the series.

Giles does have the ability to bowl incisive spells but too often he is consigned the role of putting the brakes on with negative bowling (see SA and his results there). These tactics have virtually never worked against this Aus team.

Jones was not fit enough in SA

Anderson was not match fit in SA

Hoggard bowled well but is unlikely to be suited by pitches late in the summer.

Dont worry about the batting, if you cant take 20 wickets you dont win test matches.

 

[Swervy]

Without Harmison, what is the attack.
Flintoff, Giles, Gough ??

Pakistan is better and on certain surfaces, India could be a handful.

I think a full and fit Kiwi attack may be a match too.

Gough has retired from tests so he isnt in the equation.

Harmison,Hoggard,Flintoff,Jones and Giles is better than Pakistan's by a fair distance IMO.
Re: India on certain surfaces!!! So by that you mean Indian tracks...which really has nothing to do with playing in England.

Kiwi attack..so thats with Bond I take it....coz without him NZ test attack isnt too hot.

So lets start again ...name me a team with a better bowling attack than England's in test matches

 

[chaminda_00]

Without Harmison, what is the attack.
Flintoff, Giles, Gough ??

Pakistan is better and on certain surfaces, India could be a handful.

I think a full and fit Kiwi attack may be a match too.

I would throw Sri Lanka into the mix if we had a fully fit bowling attack, but i can't remember what a fully fit Sri Lankan bowling attack looks like it been that long since we had a fully fit bowling attack. But a bowling attack like Vaas, Dilhara, Murali and Hearth would be a pretty good bowling attack.

 

[Swervy]

The whole point is that there are many "ifs" associated with England at the moment.

I think that Harmison is as talented as any fast bowler in the world - the problem is that he's miserably out of form and, IMO, not fit enough to sustain his attacks anyway.

In all likelihood, Flintoff will play but we have all seen these injuries take longer than anticipated to heal and there is no guarantee he'll be match fit at the commencement of the series.

Giles does have the ability to bowl incisive spells but too often he is consigned the role of putting the brakes on with negative bowling (see SA and his results there). These tactics have virtually never worked against this Aus team.

Jones was not fit enough in SA

Anderson was not match fit in SA

Hoggard bowled well but is unlikely to be suited by pitches late in the summer.

Dont worry about the batting, if you cant take 20 wickets you dont win test matches.

look I agree, England are going to struggle to take 20 wickets in a match, but thats more an indication of Australia's strength rather than England's supposed bowling weaknesses.

If I were an English supporter (and can I stress once again, I am not!!!! ), my main concern would be how the English batting can cope with the relentless attack of McGrath,Gillespie,Kaspa and Warne.

 

[Swervy]

I would throw Sri Lanka into the mix if we had a fully fit bowling attack, but i can't remember what a fully fit Sri Lankan bowling attack looks like it been that long since we had a fully fit bowling attack. But a bowling attack like Vaas, Dilhara, Murali and Hearth would be a pretty good bowling attack.

take Murali out of the mix and SL have a **** poor bowling attack

 

[chaminda_00]

Gough has retired from tests so he isnt in the equation.

Harmison,Hoggard,Flintoff,Jones and Giles is better than Pakistan's by a fair distance IMO.
Re: India on certain surfaces!!! So by that you mean Indian tracks...which really has nothing to do with playing in England.

Kiwi attack..so thats with Bond I take it....coz without him NZ test attack isnt too hot.

So lets start again ...name me a team with a better bowling attack than England's in test matches

Well a fully fit Pakistan attack is aleast on par with the England. Ahktar is better then Harmison, considering current form and the fact that he has bowled well aganist quality sides unlike Harmison. Sami and Rana are on par with Hoggard and Flintoff, maybe Hoggard abd Flintoff are slightly better but not by much. Kanieria is so much better then Giles it it not funny. Jones is pretty average and Kaneria is better then him and Giles put together. So therefore unless Harmison regains his form or Jones continues to improve Pakistan are on par with England.

Will the english attack is as bad on indian pitches as the indians are on english pitches. They both as good as each other at home, so what makes the english attack so much better then them.