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The 2nd best?
- Thread starter Nonentity
- Start date
chaminda_00
Hall of Fame Member
Well for me it is pretty easy in ODIs Australia, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, Pakistan, West Indies, India, South Africa, England the rest doesn't matter. BTW what has Pakistan really done that makes them better the Sri Lanka or New Zealand in ODIs. Sri Lanka played better then them in ODIs aganist Australia and have been more consistent over the last 18 months. New Zealand have been way more consistent in ODIs then Pakistan. They may have played a little better then them aganist Australia, but their are 6 other teams in the world, that NZ have generally played better aganist.
In Test it would proabably be Australia, England, India, then it is so even it is impossible to seperate.
In Test it would proabably be Australia, England, India, then it is so even it is impossible to seperate.
masterblaster
International Captain
Agreed as well. India really need to improve their inconsistency before they can be classed the second best in the world.Slats4ever said:
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
How so? Pakistan one one world class bowler in Shoaib, and one very promising bowler in Kaneria. Sami is rubbish and the rest are unproven. England have a solid, proven 5 man bowling attack and India have a pair of spinners of very high quality and a pair of seamers that are pretty poor but not as bad as Sami. Pakistan are 5th or 6th in the world with Sri Lanka, but clearly behind Australia, England, India and South Africa.Unattainableguy said:
Slats4ever
International Vice-Captain
yeah india are definately up there. despite what i've said on these forums and what may've come across as indian bashing i reckon their batting line up is just as talented or more talented than Australia's.. Their bowling however lacks genuine pace venom and there's no doubt they have a psychological issue away from home.
This however doesn't stop them being ranked the tied third best test playing nation with South Africa. Then there's a big gap to the rest unfortunately.
This however doesn't stop them being ranked the tied third best test playing nation with South Africa. Then there's a big gap to the rest unfortunately.
Zinzan
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Tests: England - Would have had india equal 2nd but not since only drawing their home series to pakistan
ODI's : New Zealand - i don't read so much into the recent 5nil drubbing to aussie. The fact remains in was a half fit side and NZ has had the better of every other oneday side they have played in the last 18 months.
ODI's : New Zealand - i don't read so much into the recent 5nil drubbing to aussie. The fact remains in was a half fit side and NZ has had the better of every other oneday side they have played in the last 18 months.
deeps
International 12th Man
india are in no way up there in tests or one dayers.........a little while back, yes they were
however they could not beat a horribly under strength pakistan team, who even at full strength are not in the top 4 test teams.
their so called "excellent batting" is compltety out of sorts iwth the exception of sehwag and dravid, and their once decent bowling attack is now nothing with the exception of balaji
quiet honestly i dont see what pathan has over zaheer khan, in order for pathan to be rated so highly! zaheer has much more potential than pathan, as so long as he can get his head striaght and stop getting injured.
however they could not beat a horribly under strength pakistan team, who even at full strength are not in the top 4 test teams.
their so called "excellent batting" is compltety out of sorts iwth the exception of sehwag and dravid, and their once decent bowling attack is now nothing with the exception of balaji
quiet honestly i dont see what pathan has over zaheer khan, in order for pathan to be rated so highly! zaheer has much more potential than pathan, as so long as he can get his head striaght and stop getting injured.
Swervy
International Captain
Pakistan have done nothing to suggest they should be considered anywhere near second in the world in tests...go have a look at the results over the last couple of yearsUnattainableguy said:
England have a much more consistant bowling attack,and all 5 top bowlers for England have produced over the last 2 years
Beleg
International Regular
There is no way in the world that the current Pakistani outfit (at full avalable strength) is 2nd in the test cricket.
In the ODI's however, I think it is a close call between NZ and Pakistan for the second place. On their day Pakistan look like beating everyone, including Australia, though these days are far and few inbetween. The fact that they have probably the best lower middle-order in the world and handy ODI allrounders covers for their fast-bowling woes and puts them a notch above teams like Sri-Lanka and South Africa. Now only if they can find a settled and consistent opening pair... (which by the way was the main difference between AUS and Pakistan in the recent VB finals)
NZ cannot perform in Pakistan/Sharjah/SL if their life depended on it. Specially in the ODI's.
In the ODI's however, I think it is a close call between NZ and Pakistan for the second place. On their day Pakistan look like beating everyone, including Australia, though these days are far and few inbetween. The fact that they have probably the best lower middle-order in the world and handy ODI allrounders covers for their fast-bowling woes and puts them a notch above teams like Sri-Lanka and South Africa. Now only if they can find a settled and consistent opening pair... (which by the way was the main difference between AUS and Pakistan in the recent VB finals)
NZ cannot perform in Pakistan/Sharjah/SL if their life depended on it. Specially in the ODI's.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Then let me explain. If India's batting in recent months is evidence of a permanent decline, then what you're saying is fair enough. However, if it's only a temporary dip in form then it's untenable to argue that England are "clearly" a better side. Despite the win in SA, it's obvious that we still have significant flaws. India's batting is probably stronger than ours, and their spin bowing definitely is. OTOH, our quicks are better than theirs. Apart from the 2 most recent series between the sides, there's the little matter of India's won and drawn series with Aus, which is something we haven't looked like managing for almost 20 years.Scaly piscine said:
deeps
International 12th Man
it all depends on the time frame..
it could be the 2nd best odi team ever, in the past 10 years, in the past 5 years etc etc.
To me, i look at current form. Being the past 6 months or so... I dont care that india were excellent in australia 12 months ago.. that is history now, they have declined alot since then.
A player is selected on his current form... If i made 5 centuries at the start of 2004, and since then, have made nothing.. i would most likely be dropped or perilously close to it.
In the one dayers, pakistan has performed extremely well in the past 6 months, and haven't lost many matches at all, except against australia.. And yes, thye may have lost a few other games as well, but i believe that lookin at their opposition and all other factors, they are currently the 2nd best odi team in the world.
New Zealand are also a very good outfit, but if they were to play each other at this point in time, in a neutral ground such as england, i would be backing pakistan to win.
On the same token, the past 6 months, england has been excellent, and they deserve the 2nd best test playing nation title.
Quiet frankly, if india cannot beat an understrengthpakistan in india, when pakistan is probalby about 5th on the test ladder, then india are no where near 2nd.
My prediction is that in another 6 months time, pakistan will be the premier one day side in the world, and 2nd in the test ratings as long as bob woolmer stays and the progress continues. that team is going places.
it could be the 2nd best odi team ever, in the past 10 years, in the past 5 years etc etc.
To me, i look at current form. Being the past 6 months or so... I dont care that india were excellent in australia 12 months ago.. that is history now, they have declined alot since then.
A player is selected on his current form... If i made 5 centuries at the start of 2004, and since then, have made nothing.. i would most likely be dropped or perilously close to it.
In the one dayers, pakistan has performed extremely well in the past 6 months, and haven't lost many matches at all, except against australia.. And yes, thye may have lost a few other games as well, but i believe that lookin at their opposition and all other factors, they are currently the 2nd best odi team in the world.
New Zealand are also a very good outfit, but if they were to play each other at this point in time, in a neutral ground such as england, i would be backing pakistan to win.
On the same token, the past 6 months, england has been excellent, and they deserve the 2nd best test playing nation title.
Quiet frankly, if india cannot beat an understrengthpakistan in india, when pakistan is probalby about 5th on the test ladder, then india are no where near 2nd.
My prediction is that in another 6 months time, pakistan will be the premier one day side in the world, and 2nd in the test ratings as long as bob woolmer stays and the progress continues. that team is going places.
Beleg
International Regular
Swervy,
No.
Pakistan lost the last two series 4-1 and 3-2 in NZ. The 4-1 was almost turned into 3-2 by a jawdropping performance by Razzaq. This performance isn't good by any standard but it still doesn't compare with NZ's woeful failure's against Pakistan in both Pakistan and Sharjah.
[unfortunately, due to a completely suckass modem I can't open cricinfo to verify my claims, so pardon me if I am wrong and talking completely out of my ass]
IMO NZ is a team which thrives on team effort and helpful pitch/ground/weather/external conditions. And their relative success in ODI's goes to show how important these factors are.
No.
Pakistan lost the last two series 4-1 and 3-2 in NZ. The 4-1 was almost turned into 3-2 by a jawdropping performance by Razzaq. This performance isn't good by any standard but it still doesn't compare with NZ's woeful failure's against Pakistan in both Pakistan and Sharjah.
[unfortunately, due to a completely suckass modem I can't open cricinfo to verify my claims, so pardon me if I am wrong and talking completely out of my ass]
IMO NZ is a team which thrives on team effort and helpful pitch/ground/weather/external conditions. And their relative success in ODI's goes to show how important these factors are.
Swervy
International Captain
there is no almost 3-2 about it...you win and you lose, nothing more nothing less...a 100 run loss to me is as bad as a 1 run loss...the two teams go out there to win games...4-1 is 4-1..ie a drubbingBeleg said:Swervy,
No.
Pakistan lost the last two series 4-1 and 3-2 in NZ. The 4-1 was almost turned into 3-2 by a jawdropping performance by Razzaq. This performance isn't good by any standard but it still doesn't compare with NZ's woeful failure's against Pakistan in both Pakistan and Sharjah.
[unfortunately, due to a completely suckass modem I can't open cricinfo to verify my claims, so pardon me if I am wrong and talking completely out of my ass]
IMO NZ is a team which thrives on team effort and helpful pitch/ground/weather/external conditions. And their relative success in ODI's goes to show how important these factors are.
Whilst I will admit Pakistan are a dangerous ODI team, they are still too up and down..NZ are pretty consistant
because pakistan have shahid afridi...haha...nah mate, we might have lost 4-1 in NZ but NZ lost 5-0 in pak so there goes NZ being consitant...its a game of luck and chance. pakistan rnt the side they used to b but they gave aus a beating in one match and a run for their money in the last final ODI.Swervy said:
