Tendulkar vs Keith Miller

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Miller for me, all day. A better cricketer than either Viv or Sachin. Also to remember, Miller was already 27 when WW2 ended and was already 37 at the time of retirement.

 

[ma1978]

Miller for me, all day. A better cricketer than either Viv or Sachin. Also to remember, Miller was already 27 when WW2 ended and was already 37 at the time of retirement.

Do you rate any cricketers who are not premodern Australians?

 

[kyear2]

Do you rate any cricketers who are not premodern Australians?

This

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Do you rate any cricketers who are not premodern Australians?

I rate Warne no.2 spinner after O’Reilly, Smith 2nd best batsman, McGrath, Marshall 2 best quicks, Imran Best Bowling AR etc etc just for few opinion.

Miller over Sachin or Viv is nowhere even close to even strange opinion to have.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Bit more on modern or pre-modern topic. 1950 is the cut of date if we are applying this modern or pre- modern thing. As someone pointed out someone like Viv is more closer to Miller time than to Smith. Whether the game has developed more between Viv and Miller time or Smith and Viv time is total hypothetical and depend on the bias of the person.

 

[ma1978]

No, it’s actually not. There were tangible developments that happened in the 1970s that created a paradigmatic shift into “modernity”. The first is the emergence of the professional cricketer who could do nothing but play cricket for a living. This led to a huge improvement in training, fitness and standards. The second is the emergence of India, Pakistan as real cricketing nations and West Indies as champions and not minnows which materially increased diversity and breadth of cricketing talent. The third is the emergence of limited overs cricket. The fourth was the widespread televising of cricket matches. The fifth is the prevalence of jet travel with the 747 increasing the number of tours.

The breed of cricketers that emerged in the 1970s - Viv, Chappell, Imran, Botham, Kapil, Hadlee, Miandad, Border - were the first truly modern cricketers

 

[trundler]

No, it’s actually not. There were tangible developments that happened in the 1970s that created a paradigmatic shift into “modernity”. The first is the emergence of the professional cricketer who could do nothing but play cricket for a living. This led to a huge improvement in training, fitness and standards. The second is the emergence of India, Pakistan as real cricketing nations and West Indies as champions and not minnows which materially increased diversity and breadth of cricketing talent. The third is the emergence of limited overs cricket. The fourth was the widespread televising of cricket matches. The fifth is the prevalence of jet travel with the 747 increasing the number of tours.

The breed of cricketers that emerged in the 1970s - Viv, Chappell, Imran, Botham, Kapil, Hadlee, Miandad, Border - were the first truly modern cricketers

West Indies won a series in England in 1950 and the 1960 series in Australia was seen as an unofficial world championship. Your knowledge of cricket history is sorely lacking.

 

[Coronis]

No, it’s actually not. There were tangible developments that happened in the 1970s that created a paradigmatic shift into “modernity”. The first is the emergence of the professional cricketer who could do nothing but play cricket for a living. This led to a huge improvement in training, fitness and standards. The second is the emergence of India, Pakistan as real cricketing nations and West Indies as champions and not minnows which materially increased diversity and breadth of cricketing talent. The third is the emergence of limited overs cricket. The fourth was the widespread televising of cricket matches. The fifth is the prevalence of jet travel with the 747 increasing the number of tours.

The breed of cricketers that emerged in the 1970s - Viv, Chappell, Imran, Botham, Kapil, Hadlee, Miandad, Border - were the first truly modern cricketers

Ah yes I remember the 50’s Windies being hardcore minnows

 

[ma1978]

Ah yes I remember the 50’s Windies being hardcore minnows

Did I say that? I said they evolved jibto champions

And why not address the substance rather than picking on a minor point

 

[ma1978]

West Indies won a series in England in 1950 and the 1960 series in Australia was seen as an unofficial world championship. Your knowledge of cricket history is sorely lacking.

I said the West Ibdies evolved into champions

 

[ma1978]

Edit; I can see how my language was misleading. Meant India and Pakistan emerged from minnow status, West Indies went from being a good team to champions

 

[Coronis]

Did I say that? I said they evolved jibto champions

And why not address the substance rather than picking on a minor point

You literally said “they evolved into champions and not minnows” lol.

The game has changed no doubt and thats why directly comparing across eras isn’t simple. Even from Viv’s career until now there have been huge changes. You can’t directly compare across eras because conditions have changed so much - the best method imo is comparing a player to how they performed relative to their peers. Or you can think about if players such as Miller or others played in a more modern time with all the modern advantages that athletes have, how would they improve? How would modern players adapt to increasingly worse wickets and smaller bats etc. Or there are just certain people who just think modern=better, pre 70’s players suck.

Also nice job ignoring the posts regarding Miller’s bowling workload in comparison to Benaud and Davidson

 

[kyear2]

While the '70's heralded a new era for professionalism, I also believe the entire post war period from '48 was when we can say the game became modernized (as of to level where the games resembled what it looks like today) and the quality and competitiveness generally improved. The batting was a bit stodgy, but that evolved over time

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Comparison across era is so flawed really. Though, Plain as day to me Miller at his peak directly transported to 1975 would still be one of the best if not the best cricketer in the world. Viv on the other hand I don’t think is in the Fab 4 or Babar class if we are talking absolute objectively.

 

[kyear2]

Comparison across era is so flawed really. Though, Plain as day to me Miller at his peak directly transported to 1975 would still be one of the best if not the best cricketer in the world. Viv on the other hand I don’t think is in the Fab 4 or Babar class if we are talking absolute objectively.

What would make you believe that? Genuinely curious

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Comparison across era is so flawed really. Though, Plain as day to me Miller at his peak directly transported to 1975 would still be one of the best if not the best cricketer in the world. Viv on the other hand I don’t think is in the Fab 4 or Babar class if we are talking absolute objectively.

Even Pakistanis would feel that's a grave insult to Viv.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

What would Viv average if you dropped him from 1976 into this era?

 

[ma1978]

What would make you believe that? Genuinely curious

Female intuition?

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Female intuition?

We should keep misogyny out of this thread

 

[Coronis]

What would Viv average if you dropped him from 1976 into this era?

He’d still get glandular fever - and current cricket boards would rest him for a few months. Then he’d try and fail to win the ODI WC and then he’d get bored with tests cos he didn’t have all these other greats playing with him and become the new Chris Gayle.