Tendulkar to Play in Nagpur

[honestbharani]

So much for not wanting to start another debate, lol.



Well, my point is this: Sure, Yuvi doesn't look good now, but he might get better. Maybe the confidence of one good inning will spur him on. The thing is that Sourav feels he has it in him. He has been proved right with Bhajji and Sehwag before in the matter of spotting talent. All I am saying is that we give him a chance. Personally, I don't think Yuvi can make it in test cricket with his present technique. But, I felt that Sehwag would be torn to pieces during the Down Under tour last year. So, if the captain thinks he sees potential, then let him back that guy. After all that Sourav has done, he deserves to persist with a guy who, in his opinion, has it in him to be successful at the highest level.

 

[SJS]

So much for not wanting to start another debate, lol.



Well, my point is this: Sure, Yuvi doesn't look good now, but he might get better. Maybe the confidence of one good inning will spur him on. The thing is that Sourav feels he has it in him. He has been proved right with Bhajji and Sehwag before in the matter of spotting talent. All I am saying is that we give him a chance. Personally, I don't think Yuvi can make it in test cricket with his present technique. But, I felt that Sehwag would be torn to pieces during the Down Under tour last year. So, if the captain thinks he sees potential, then let him back that guy. After all that Sourav has done, he deserves to persist with a guy who, in his opinion, has it in him to be successful at the highest level.

Are you aware that Sehwag never wanted to open. Ganguly pushed him to open because unlike Yuvraj who will find no other place in India's middle order, Sehwag was going to cause some problems by forcing the selectors into a difficult situation in the middle order.

No one doubts that Sehwag would have been equally successful in the middle order (if not more) than he has been as an opener in tests. Can you imagine who would have been dropped if he had stayed in the middle order ???

 

[honestbharani]

Look, the point is not about Sehwag. The point is about Team India. Let us take up your own point: Do you think Viru would have been more useful for India in the middle order. I think not. When was the last time India had an opener who averaged in excess of 50, atleast in his first 20-25 tests? By having such a player opening, India have only increased their chances of being successful. Ian Chappell said and I quote him "Whoever asked SEhwag to open is a genius." His reasoning is simple. You want your best players at the top of the order so that they can take the game away from the opposition before they even realize it. Surely, they are bound to fail, but if they are truly great players, they will succeed more often than fail.


As far as I know, Sourav is one Indian captain who is prepared to back players who he believes would be match winners. He rates Yuvi as one and since he was not wrong about Bhajji or Sehwag, I say we just give him a reasonable chance.

 

[SJS]

Look, the point is not about Sehwag. The point is about Team India. Let us take up your own point: Do you think Viru would have been more useful for India in the middle order. I think not. When was the last time India had an opener who averaged in excess of 50, atleast in his first 20-25 tests? By having such a player opening, India have only increased their chances of being successful. Ian Chappell said and I quote him "Whoever asked SEhwag to open is a genius." His reasoning is simple. You want your best players at the top of the order so that they can take the game away from the opposition before they even realize it. Surely, they are bound to fail, but if they are truly great players, they will succeed more often than fail.


As far as I know, Sourav is one Indian captain who is prepared to back players who he believes would be match winners. He rates Yuvi as one and since he was not wrong about Bhajji or Sehwag, I say we just give him a reasonable chance.

Sorry. I disagree on both counts. There is no justification to assume that Sehwag would have been less successful in the middle order. He is still wanting to bat in the middle order and has said so on many occasions.

As far as backing the players is concerned, yes Ganguly has backed some youngsters but if you watch carefuly, he is very selective about whom he backs. There are others, equally deserving and those who have performed but for them the skipper does not believe in persisting. Incidentaly, some of them are openers and have done reasonably well in that spot. Das and Ramesh come immediately to mind.

Bangar too is another quickly discarded after a NZ Land tour where no one scored but the axe fell on him. His record till then was very god but has been completely forgotten.

Similaly amongst bowl;ers, it is an open secret that he prefers Harbhajan to Kumble, always. Zaheer to all other medium pacers, Parthiv to any other keeper, Yuvraj to Kaif and would never ever play Murali Karthik if he could have his way. This is not encouraging youngsters. This is playing favourites.

Everyone knows that Kumble had to really struggle to get back. Fortunately for him Harbhajan's injury gave him that chance and he performed so well in Australia otherwise we would have seen another kind of direction this large hearted bowlers career taking.

 

[honestbharani]

Sorry. I disagree on both counts. There is no justification to assume that Sehwag would have been less successful in the middle order. He is still wanting to bat in the middle order and has said so on many occasions.

As far as backing the players is concerned, yes Ganguly has backed some youngsters but if you watch carefuly, he is very selective about whom he backs. There are others, equally deserving and those who have performed but for them the skipper does not believe in persisting. Incidentaly, some of them are openers and have done reasonably well in that spot. Das and Ramesh come immediately to mind.

Bangar too is another quickly discarded after a NZ Land tour where no one scored but the axe fell on him. His record till then was very god but has been completely forgotten.

Similaly amongst bowl;ers, it is an open secret that he prefers Harbhajan to Kumble, always. Zaheer to all other medium pacers, Parthiv to any other keeper, Yuvraj to Kaif and would never ever play Murali Karthik if he could have his way. This is not encouraging youngsters. This is playing favourites.

Everyone knows that Kumble had to really struggle to get back. Fortunately for him Harbhajan's injury gave him that chance and he performed so well in Australia otherwise we would have seen another kind of direction this large hearted bowlers career taking.

First of all, I never said that Viru would not have been successful in the middle order. What I said was that India only gained by having Viru higher up the order. I am not sure if any of the current openers would have scored the runs he has at the top of the order.


And as for Sourav being selective, yes, he is. But at this point of time, I am still not convinced that he lets petty things prejudice him. He simply thinks, from a cricketing view, that some have talent and some don't. And since, so far, the guys he has backed have done well, let us give him a chance with Yuvi.


Like I said, I don't think Yuvi can make it, unless he changes his technique a little. But I could be wrong. Let us give a fair chance to both Yuvi and Sourav. After all, he has only opened once.

 

[SJS]

Like I said, I don't think Yuvi can make it, unless he changes his technique a little. But I could be wrong. Let us give a fair chance to both Yuvi and Sourav. After all, he has only opened once.

You know. Its not a question of giving him a chance. Its more a question of whether he has the game for a test opener. Clearly he doesnt. Laxman did open for India you know and wasnt a miserable failure but didnt do as well as he has done in the middle order. In fact one of the greates innings played by an Indian in Australia is by him at the openers slot(a67). but still he wasnt comfortable there. Believe me he is more suitable than Yuvraj for the job. Dravid even more so. But Yuvraj. NO !

This logic of getting of to a flyer with a stroke playing opener is not valid in test matches. If someone wanted to try Yuvraj in ODI's as an opener(not that there is any vacancy there) it might make some sense, but in tests, absolutely no. He has no defense to speak of. Has no idea how to leave a ball which is the first requisite as an opener at this level. sehwag maybe a stroke player but he has a much better idea of where his off stump is and he either goes through with a shot with a straight bat or defends with a straight bat. He does not hang out his bat tentatively and move his feet towards the leg stump to pace bowlers as Yuvi does.

Playing Yuvi in the opening slot is not just doing disservice to team India,but is much worse for yuvraj's career.

You know if he had not opened in the last test he might have played in place of Kaif in the middle order (Chopra opening) and might have scored the runs that Kaif did. At least he stood a better chance there. Ganguly isnt doing him a favour.

 

[honestbharani]

You know. Its not a question of giving him a chance. Its more a question of whether he has the game for a test opener. Clearly he doesnt. Laxman did open for India you know and wasnt a miserable failure but didnt do as well as he has done in the middle order. In fact one of the greates innings played by an Indian in Australia is by him at the openers slot(a67). but still he wasnt comfortable there. Believe me he is more suitable than Yuvraj for the job. Dravid even more so. But Yuvraj. NO !

This logic of getting of to a flyer with a stroke playing opener is not valid in test matches. If someone wanted to try Yuvraj in ODI's as an opener(not that there is any vacancy there) it might make some sense, but in tests, absolutely no. He has no defense to speak of. Has no idea how to leave a ball which is the first requisite as an opener at this level. sehwag maybe a stroke player but he has a much better idea of where his off stump is and he either goes through with a shot with a straight bat or defends with a straight bat. He does not hang out his bat tentatively and move his feet towards the leg stump to pace bowlers as Yuvi does.

Playing Yuvi in the opening slot is not just doing disservice to team India,but is much worse for yuvraj's career.

You know if he had not opened in the last test he might have played in place of Kaif in the middle order (Chopra opening) and might have scored the runs that Kaif did. At least he stood a better chance there. Ganguly isnt doing him a favour.

First of all, the way Yuvi plays spinners, I wouldn't rate his chances too highly against Shane Warne. Secondly, you are right. Laxman was not comfortable opening. And he said it. If Yuvi feels the same way, he should say it to Sourav and then go back, play Ranji, make big runs and force himself into consideration. I am almost sure that asking Yuvi to open was done after his consent only. But let us not pre-judge anything. Let us wait till the season is over, when we can pass a real verdict on Yuvi. I don't think he will play at Nagpur. So, let us see how he goes against SA, if he gets the chance and then pass our verdict.

 

[SJS]

Yes. Lets hope who ever opens score runs. I hope Yuvraj doesnt open but if he does, I hope he gets a hundred. India needs it more than I need to prove a point

 

[V Reddy]

The way I see it, if Yuvraj has to play test cricket, he has to prove that he can. Kaif did in the only innings he played in, Chopra has proved it in Australia and Pakistan and so have pretty much everyone else in the Indian squad.

No freebies here - Yuvraj has to go and wait for his next chance. In these two tests, he failed.

If Chopra proved it in Aus and Pak ( where i thought he got a 40 odd in one inning out of 3) then Yuvraj excelled in Pakistan if we go by those standards. I mean what is the use of dropping Bangar if we pick the same kind of batsman who unlike Bangar struggles to go beyond 40's. Bangar also used to be a good bowler in non-asian conditions

 

[TendulkarFan]

If Chopra proved it in Aus and Pak ( where i thought he got a 40 odd in one inning out of 3) then Yuvraj excelled in Pakistan if we go by those standards. I mean what is the use of dropping Bangar if we pick the same kind of batsman who unlike Bangar struggles to go beyond 40's. Bangar also used to be a good bowler in non-asian conditions

Where does Bangar come in here? I never saw Bangar (being in Canada and all) play so I can neither agree nor disagree with your view point, nor do I have an opinion of Bangar either way.

And I will firmly stand by my point that Chopra proved to be an adequate opener in those tough conditions. He may not have gotten a score over 40 but he was asked to do the job of protecting the Indian middle-order from fresh Aussie bowling and he did it admirably. For the Nagpur test, if it comes down to Chopra vs. Yuvraj, I'd pick Chopra in a heartbeat.

 

[TendulkarFan]

If Yuvi feels the same way, he should say it to Sourav and then go back, play Ranji, make big runs and force himself into consideration.

Yuvi would have to be an idiot to do that - not only would he lose his 3M rupees per year but also risk losing favour with Ganguly who is so adamant in his support.

If I'm Yuvraj (or Parthiv for that matter), I'd ride this wave of confidence from Ganguly and try and get my $hit in order at the intl level while making decent income rather than go and toil with the hundreds of other luckless souls at Ranji.

 

[tooextracool]

If Yuvraj is going to have to improve his defence, he may as well improve his play against the spinners while he's at it.

So basically, he needs to be out of the team and greatly improve.

the thing is, if he cant open and cant play spin, where exactly do you bat him?

 

[SJS]

the thing is, if he cant open and cant play spin, where exactly do you bat him?

I think what he means is, since he plays spin even worse than he plays the new ball, he should open.

Q.E.D.

 

[SJS]

Why am I getting the feeling that those who think Yuvraj should open are from the same tribe that think Atherton (of all the people) is mediocre ??

 

[honestbharani]

the thing is, if he cant open and cant play spin, where exactly do you bat him?

The thing is that a lot of people, including moi, feel that he may not make it as an opener. But, unfortunately or fortunately, Sourav feels Yuvi can make it as an opener. It seems obvious that the guy will struggle if he plays in the middle order in the subcontinental conditions. Perhaps, elsewhere, he might succeed, but not at home, given the way he plays the spinners.



The whole point of this is that Sourav thinks he can be good as an opener, and eventhough personally, I don't see it happening, all I am saying is that since Sourav has been proved right in such matters before, let us give him a reasonable chance before passing the verdict.

 

[marc71178]

But does Ganguly think he'll be a good opener, or is Ganguly trying to ease him into that spot to take the pressure off Ganguly for a middle order spot?

 

[SJS]

The whole point of this is that Sourav thinks he can be good as an opener, and eventhough personally, I don't see it happening, all I am saying is that since Sourav has been proved right in such matters before, let us give him a reasonable chance before passing the verdict.

Like what ?

 

[Vroomfondel]

sehwag

 

[SJS]

sehwag

'matters' means more than just one I think.

Heard of a keeper (so called) called Deep Dasgupta ?

Count all the players he has supported over the years (and that means supported when they would have otherwise been dropped without his support) and you will find there havent been any miracles coming out of Ganguly's head.

Yes. He has stood by some players and that is an admirable quality but to claim that he has , therefore, been proven right (against conventional wisdom/general opinion) is to stretch the point beyond facts.

The stars of the Indian team like Sachin, Dravid, Laxman, Sehwag, Harbhajan and Kuble dont need anyone's backing. they are there on the strength their own performances.

The players he has supported are the others and for each of these you can find others who havent found favour with him and who have been discarded inspite of reasonably good performance.

I dont think this is a case of Ganguly being found to be right, but of Gabguly sticking to those he favours until they finally deliver or he is forced to change.