Team full of batsmen or team full of bowlers? Which is stronger on paper?

[Dan]

What about an all attacking XI vs an all defensive XI?

Boycott, Cook, Dravid, Flower, Chanderpaul, Richardson, Bailey, Davidson, Verity, Tate, McGrath
vs
Warner, Sehwag, Macartney, Richards, Trumper, Gilchrist, Miller, Kapil Dev, Steyn, Waqar, Muralitharan

 

[Howe_zat]

What about an all attacking XI vs an all defensive XI?

Boycott, Cook, Dravid, Flower, Chanderpaul, Richardson, Bailey, Davidson, Verity, Tate, McGrath
vs
Warner, Sehwag, Macartney, Richards, Trumper, Gilchrist, Miller, Kapil Dev, Steyn, Waqar, Muralitharan

The attacking side looks better balanced to me, but the defensive XI could be improved with Hutton, Gavaskar, Kallis and Ambrose.

Kapil not particularly attacking with the ball IMO, I'd put Botham in there instead. Also feels like it should have a legspinner on principle.

 

[Red]

Bishen Bedi to be the spinner in the defensive XI and Arthur Mailey the spinner in the attacking XI.

 

[cnerd123]

What about 'you got to be willing to lose to win' Shane Warne?

 

[watson]

Bishen Bedi to be the spinner in the defensive XI and Arthur Mailey the spinner in the attacking XI.

Bedi, Prasanna, and Chandra were all attacking spinners who loved to bait and torment the batsman. Especially Bedi,

You have to go back nine decades or so, to Australian leggie Arthur Mailey, to find a kindred soul. Mailey took flak for helping out opponents. Extravagantly talented, both he and Bedi bowled with the lavishness of millionaires. Bedi's credo was first spelt out by Mailey, who said, "I'd rather spin and see the ball hit for four than bowl a batsman out by a straight one." On another occasion Mailey said: "If I ever bowl a maiden over, it's not my fault but the batsman's." It is a sentiment Bedi would understand. Despite one-day cricket, he refused to bring his art down from the classical heights into the sphere of everyday utility. This refusal to compromise has been the hallmark of Bedi the player, the man, the administrator, coach and columnist.

Suresh Menon on his favourite cricketer, Bishan Bedi | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[watson]

Surely the left-armer Bapu Nadkarni would have to be the most defensive spinner of all time with an ER of just 1.67 and a record 21 successive maidens against England in 1964.

Batsmen faced with the problem of playing Bapu Nadkarni's left-arm spin had two scoring options to choose from: nil and negligible. Nadkarni was one of the game's most noted economist ever - he gave away just 1.67 runs per over over in his Test career. In the 1960-61 series against Pakistan, he returned figures of 32-24-23-0 at Kanpur followed by 34-24-24-1 at Delhi. He crowned that with Test cricket's finest display of quantity-control bowling, with 21 successive maidens in his 32-27-5-0 against England at Madras in 1964.

Bapu Nadkarni | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[watson]

I think that both Bill O'Reilly and Sydney Barnes qualify as the most aggressive and attacking medium-paced spinners of all time. If not then they must be the most cranky and short tempered.

 

[Victor Ian]

What about 'you got to be willing to lose to win' Shane Warne?

And let's not forget "Excepting Vogues, my right arm is better than all of you!" Bradman? It might be hip to not include Bradman in your team, but surely not wise. He was not slow by any definition of the word. Sewag almost scored 300 in a day - that's what you expect of the most smashful of attackers. Bradman DID score 300 in a day. The team can't all have the same strike rate as Sewag, so Bradman would, at the very least, be in there as the Boycott of the Attacking team.

 

[watson]

Defensive ATG XI
01. Geoff Boycott
02. Trevor Goddard
03. Rahul Dravid
04. Ken Barrington
05. Steve Waugh
06. Allan Border
07. John Waite
08. Bapu Nadkarni
09. Alan Davidson
10. Curtly Ambrose
11. Glenn McGrath


Attacking ATG XI
01. Virender Sehwag
02. Victor Trumper
03. Charles Macartney
04. Brian Lara
05. Viv Richards
06. Garry Sobers
07. Adam Gilchrist
08. Malcolm Marshall
09. Dennis Lillee
10. Bill O'Reilly
11. Waqar Younis

 

[Hurricane]

Surely the left-armer Bapu Nadkarni would have to be the most defensive spinner of all time with an ER of just 1.67 and a record 21 successive maidens against England in 1964.

I would like two thousand CW post count points to be deducted from people's accounts every time the story of his 21 successive maidens is told.

 

[mr_mister]

What makes Curtley Ambrose such a defensive bowler?

 

[AldoRaine18]

What makes Curtley Ambrose such a defensive bowler?

Same reason as McGrath. Usually bowls insanely accurate line and length waiting for the batsman to make the mistake.

 

[watson]

What makes Curtley Ambrose such a defensive bowler?

.

.....It was a pleasant surprise to hear him give an informative and animated interview to Sky Sports’ Nasser Hussain, a stark contrast to the virtually silent predator who caused havoc across the world.

It was the simplicity of the message he presented that stood out, and it’s one worth listening and adhering to in these days of over-complicated methods and styles.

Quite simply, Ambrose preached the benefits of a patient approach. Dry the scoring up, stick to a plan, give nothing away and the rewards will follow. This might sound like the ramblings of a man stuck in the past in these days of high-octane, instantly gratifying cricket, but tried and trusted wisdom shouldn’t be brushed to one side.

On the pitches being encountered by England as we speak, the very same which Australia are about to have to negotiate and the ones likely to serve the upcoming Ashes, it is a method that works and consistently so.

Pace is a decent asset to have in the armoury, but it isn’t the only thing. Ambrose could bowl quickly when it was required, as could Glenn McGrath who utilised a very similar approach, but perseverance and repetition were their weapons of choice and the threat of being able to up a gear kept those at the other end honest.

If the 22 yards in front of you negate the speed of the delivery to a certain degree, a factor that can be applicable when top-level batsman are involved, changing the emphasis from attack to an attacking kind of defence is a good way to go.

Curtly Ambrose?s method is well worth copying | The Roar

 

[Shady Slim]

i think on a spinning pitch the bowlers would be sblounched

they'd win or draw on a road i'd say unless you have bowlers with no concentration like southee, and on a seamer it could go either way

in terms of the attacking vs defending XIs

advantage attacking, i feel their attacking instinct would mean they wouldn't get tied down too often if they played like one thousand games against each other in real life

 

[Red]

What about 'you got to be willing to lose to win' Shane Warne?

Sort of an ideal combo of aggression and defence really. Was an attacking leg spinner through his accuracy and ability to tie down.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Just using an example of the best bats ever verus the best bowlers ever

Batsman:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Sachin
Sobers
Viv
Lara
Hammond
Grace
S Waugh
Sanga+


Made sure to include a few blokes who could bowl a bit



Bowlers:

Imran
Hadlee
Jack Russell +
Marshall
Warne
Wasim
O'Reilly
Barnes
Murali
Ambrose
McGrath


made sure to include a bloke who could keep and wouldn't add that much with the bat


Who wins this match?

The Batsmen, have the potential to post a pretty good total say 350-400 against the Bowlers, maybe even more.

But when it comes to the Bowlers batting, you're pretty much asking 3-4 guys (Hadlee, Imran, Russell and Warne/Wasim) to go and get those runs. And Warne/Wasim don't exactly qualify as test allrounders.

 

[The Sean]

Defensive ATG XI
01. Geoff Boycott
02. Trevor Goddard
03. Rahul Dravid
04. Ken Barrington
05. Steve Waugh
06. Allan Border
07. John Waite
08. Bapu Nadkarni
09. Alan Davidson
10. Curtly Ambrose
11. Glenn McGrath


Attacking ATG XI
01. Virender Sehwag
02. Victor Trumper
03. Charles Macartney
04. Brian Lara
05. Viv Richards
06. Garry Sobers
07. Adam Gilchrist
08. Malcolm Marshall
09. Dennis Lillee
10. Bill O'Reilly
11. Waqar Younis

Would love to see that match. Though it says a lot about the relative perceptions of Lillee and McGrath that few people would disagree with your placement of the two of them, when in fact McGrath's Test strike rate is better than Lillee's.

 

[Red]

yeh, how to you categorise attacking and defensive quicks? Marshall has an incredible SR and an incredible average and ER. Same as McGrath. Part of their success as strike bowlers was their ability to bowl defensively.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Would love to see that match. Though it says a lot about the relative perceptions of Lillee and McGrath that few people would disagree with your placement of the two of them, when in fact McGrath's Test strike rate is better than Lillee's.

I would. Putting either of them in either of the sides is silly, which you could say about a huge number of great players.

Imo it's a minority of players that would actually fit into out-and-out "defensive" or "aggressive" roles eg. Sehwag, Gilchrist, Afridi, Boycott. Most of the players in those teams shouldn't really be there.

Labelling McGrath or Steve Waugh "defensive" is particularly laughable. Same with Alan Davidson.

 

[watson]

Would love to see that match. Though it says a lot about the relative perceptions of Lillee and McGrath that few people would disagree with your placement of the two of them, when in fact McGrath's Test strike rate is better than Lillee's.

I don't disagree with the SR being an important factor. But really, it's how the player plays the game that counts. If McGrath was a 'metronome' then Lillee was a 'box of tricks'.

If McGrath was your typical 'passive agressive' then Lillee's aggression was the complete opposite - all flamboyance and show.

Glenn McGrath couldn't replicate this over to Viv Richards in a million years;